Posted 11 years ago
antiquerose
(1467 items)
IT is about 4 inches high, and 4.5 inches wide. The top opening is about 2 inches wide, while the bottom is base is 2.5 inches wide. There are also some *sparkles* in the Green section. Has a partial label for ROYAL ART GLASS. Told, dates to around 1925 - 1930. The label was used post WWI. I thought this was ceramic (fat lava type) till I looked closer and saw it was Glass.
** "Welzbub" helped me in the past to ID this, so I am forever Grateful to his wonderful research and Knowledge!!
Thanks for all the Loves everybody!!
MacArt
elainekay42
bratjdd
PhilDavidAlexanderMorris
Deanteaks
blunderbuss2
DrFluffy
mikelv85
vetraio50
aghcollect
SEAN68
@ Loumanal -- For you to see. EH ??
BEAUTIFUL and with a label at that. RER(BOB)
ROYAL ARTGLASS ( One word I believe). Has splashes of green aventurine in it
""Suggested"" to me that the label used post WWI and MAY have been used by Franz Welz on pieces exported to the North American market. Czech Glass/label probably from around 1920 - 1930's. [Update]: Confirmation that Glasmarken Lexicon 1600-1945 lists the Royal Artglass label as a Welz label.
Hope that helps LOUMANAL.....Love yours too.
Eh? ;-)
Royal Art Glass Co. was an importer of wares with a "factory" located at 243 Canal Street, New York, NY, USA. They imported a variety of products from multiple manufacturers so unfortunately their label does not help any with an id. Your glass vase was actually manufactured by Murano, not Franz Welz.
The rim is WAY too thick for Czech Glass, imho.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171878413379?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D171878413379%26_rdc%3D1
This vase is by Franz Welz Klostergrab, as is the one that is misattributed as Murano on ebay. The label on that piece is not original to that glass. Why someone would add it is beyond me, but there are a lot of things on ebay that are beyond me, so I am not surprised. My personal pair of Loetz Argentan vases were purchased off of ebay as Murano production out of the Italian glass category, although I have to admit they did not have fake Italian labels on them.
Several examples of this shape and decor have been seen with the Royal Art Glass label on it. Other examples are known with a "Made In Czechoslovakia" label on them, certainly indicating they were not of Italian origins.
I am curious as to the name of the décor on Kralik-glass.com under Kralik that is similar to this décor. I would have to add that "similar" is a term that can be applied to many decors by many different companies.
Although this is actually a "dead horse" that for some reason Charcoal seems to want to continue to kick endlessly, the Royal Art Glass label on this vase and others has absolutely nothing to do with an American Lamp & Lighting Co. that has never been linked to Czech glass imports by anyone anywhere, except by Charcoal in this forum. The position that it is the same company is one I would have to classify as ludicrous.
In addition to the label being found on décors and shapes documented in Welz production literature from the late 1920's, Welz's use of this label is documented in a 1930's trade publication from Europe that lists glass manufacturers. It is also referenced in the Glasmarken Lexicon as being a Welz label.
I can not tell on the box link. Pics are too dark, but it does not look the same. Similar? Yes..
There is a possibility the 4 pieces in the auction link are the same decor, but I would have to see better pics of all of the pieces including bases and rims to arrive at any kind of opinion. I think there are likely similar décors by at least a couple of houses. I do not recognize the bowl or compote shapes at all.... which does not really mean all that much.
There are two shapes in similar décors on that page, both of which I am going to remove in a minute. I had forgotten about them being there. They were added early on, and I am now not 100% sure of them.
I do not show the decor on a page, as the only pieces I am 100% sure of any more are the labeled examples, and ones in the same shape showing slightly different colors.
"Wow! nothing beats a label to identify and piece of glass. "
Several years ago the Italian government seized millions of labels indicating Murano production from a group that were applying them to huge quantities of Chinese glass and reselling it as Italian production.
A label is only a valid method of ID if the glass it is on makes sense, In the event the label does not make sense, the glass should be what is used for an attribution.
This is a stellar example of that situation.
According to the Italian government there are literally millions of labeled vases in the marketplace now which are Chinese glass with Murano labels.
Although the link to the ebay vase which Charcoal provided shows a Murano label on a piece like this, it is definitely Czech Production.
Good solve welz, as usual, good research on that one.
Alan
The "Royal Art Glass" label is special, but it isn't a Welz label.
http://chataboutdg.com/gallery/img20209.search.htm
Great piece of welz!
Great information from welzebub to confirm the attribution.
scott
Although certainly an interesting find, a single label seemingly out of place, is more of a currently unexplained anomaly than a monumental breakthrough allowing us to completely discredit the Glasmarken Lexicon and period trade publications they used to attribute the label to Welz.
@Craig, is this Welz or what? Not sure now....??
Royal Art Glass was marketing goods from multiple manufacturers and has nothing to do with Franz Welz.
"Royal Art Glass Co. of New York was marketing and selling lamps built with parts from multiple manufacturers. Additionally the company has never been linked to Czech glass imports, and has nothing to do with Franz Welz, or the Royal Art Glass label they used on production as late as the 1930's."
@antiquerose Yes it is Welz.
The Royal Art Glass Co. in New York that has never been linked in any manner, other than Charcoal saying so, to Czech glass imports.
He has also never explained why the products and paperwork used by the company in New York all used "Co." after the name, with the exception of the label in question. This would include cast markings on metal parts they had produced for them by manufacturers.
Additionally he has never explained how it is possible that they were out of business by the late 1920's (1928 if memory serves me correctly) and the information used by the Glasmarken Lexicon was a 1933 Glass industry directory. This point has been brought up numerous times previously, but alas, it does not fit Charcoals "research", so it goes.... once again... completely ignored, unmentioned and unexplained.
"If you forget the label, why is this piece considered Welz? Is that not basing yourself on one single thing?"
First of all, the discussion was really in regards to the origins of the label and Charcoals repeated desire to link it to a New York lamp company. He believed a Murano label on an ebay piece.....
Secondly, it would appear that you have mistakenly assumed that the label was the sole source of the ID. (basing myself on one thing)
Feel free to research the shape and decor yourself Lisa. Our discussions never seem to end well, so I choose not to participate any longer.... but you are well aware of that.
Thanks Craig and All -- I was just getting confused here myself....LOL. As this was a piece I stumbled on a while ago.
~ It is very pretty and sits here in my glass cabinet
antiquerose! C'est comme deranger un Nid D'Abeille ce sujet la...RER
I speak no French....LOL.....??
@rucklczglass, just get more meat to this , I just get the other one listed on EBay.
This one have a Murano label.
@Rob, Toujour mieux, ne pas d'éranger les abeilles. Lol
Alan
One simple question for the "experts". The example found by Charcoal was produced in the 1930's.... How did a label he has purported for 2 years was not used by Welz, but instead used by an American company based in New York that was defunct at some point in 1928, get put on a piece of glass produced several years later?
If the Welz attribution for the glass can be supported is a completely different question.
The lack of a response speaks volumes!
scott
I agree Scott.
The "noise" seems to have no real explainable foundation at all.... but I knew that all along.
I just thought the opportunity to answer a simple question would allow those reviving the issues once again to clear the air.... You know calm the "Bees Nest" that is claimed to be present, or revive the "Dead Horse" I keep pointing out in the middle of the room..... Silly me. :-)
Apparemment, je suis un rêveur , avec des attentes irréalistes , attendre que les gens à réellement répondre à une question simple à l'appui de leur opinion.
Wow, welzebub, J'ignorais, que ton français étais si bon, félicitation......
Or maybe you use a translater, LOL
Alan
its welz because of the lebel, ive seen it on about 80 pieces. for a while i could have sworn this piece exhibited a pattern that was common to Kralik or Ruckl - specifically the mottled blurry cased decor. this mottling is just a style and not definite to one glass house. welz labels are incredibly reliable to when i see one (in the case of charcoals link) I assume the dealer is wrong since they don't have 80 examples of generic depression era mold pieces made to look like Daum or Lalique... and by the way if Kralik made mold blown frosted deco pieces so did Welz. they both copied and fullfilled the needs of the glass consumer. well done Craig
Hi Alan,
I use a Translator.... but not Google, which is not very accurate in my opinion. I spend much time in my research translating foreign documents to gain access to what is often quite obscure information. I have developed the skill of using multiple translators to insure accurate translations for my research work.
WOW rucklczglass. I did not say it did not work. I said in my opinion it was not very accurate. It does get something right once in a while :-) Good work!!! I am completely and thoroughly unimpressed!!
Jericho, The piece in Charcoals link actually is a piece of 1930's Czech pressed glass by a different company, Stozle. I have confirmed that. The question then becomes if Welz fulfilled an order for a customer by buying a product he did not actually produce. The floor plans for Antonienhütte do not have any details indicating a means by which pressed glass could have been produced at the facility. So possibly they bought it and resold it. We will likely never know how the label got there.
No translation program is not faulty. Some are much better than others. I use translation sites for several different languages, and several sites for each of the languages.
oh dear....I nodded off...antiquerose how are you? Well, I hope....I see the same old argument is up again. Welz would have made so much money as they had their hands in every darn shape and decor known to man! In fact, wasnt he also a Kennedy brother? Or just a member of the Communist party and that wanted the Kennedy men assasinated? hehe
These translators show very much who can and can't communicate in French or for that matter any language. I'm so lucky I had my school girl French as I worked and negotitated deals in Europe. If you didn't do a language at school then you were seen as disrespectful. Why play in the big game if you can't bring the whole package. But we shouldn't be insulting either to those who try. Sacré bleu!! LOL
Why don't you lot just agree to disagree?Why does there have to be a winner all the time? Why not subscribe to the chance that there is a certain amount of mystery to this whole game and that you can actually enjoy it as the mystery rather than as a competition?
But no. That just will not happen because someone has to be correct. Some people purposely come in here to rattle someones cage as they subscribe to this nasty ways of righteousness.
I wish you the best in finding what you all want.... :)
Nice to see it again!
Just wondering if anyone has found a Royal Art Glass sticker on a Royal Art Glass Co lamp base or lampshade ???
@VETRAIO50 -- Just bumping up for your question at point # 32 ....
Just attaching this info here I found on another place and did not want to lose the info "" I know this is not Welz but it is related... I have seen this shape countless times in a pull-up decor. This piece sometimes has a Royal art glass label (like many Welz pieces), here it is signed differently. This mark has been associated with A Ruckl and ES steinwald. The mystery continues but at least we know that these adventurine pieces are made by the same company as so many popular Czech glass decors""