Posted 11 years ago
Moonstonel…
(765 items)
I am reposting this vase with another line pattern that may give more support to my theory. That this may indeed may be, one of the Early Loetz Heliotrope Vase. I have posted the vase with her sister vase in décor Early Loetz Heliotrope PN. I-1808, Dek I/4...being alongside...to show evidence of the possibility. This vase measures 4.85 x 8.5 long. The enameling is different....from the DEK. I personally feel that the evidence is getting closer.
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/114482-early-loetz-heliotrope-pn-i-1808-dek-i?in=user
Thank you Warren for your help with the copy of the blueprint.
geo, many thanks for the fast loving!
manddmoir, many thanks
Hi Lee
Great pieces ...
The only problem I can see is that the line drawings actually suggest this is Hyacinth rather than Heliotrope ... with chine (? silk de chine) metallic iridescence ... which appears to be a reference in French in the Munsterschnitte ...
Fascinating isn't it !
Cheers
Corrections
... alles in German = Everything ... actually says "metallisirt" ...
:-)
SteveS, I had that translated for me...and I am well aware that this colour was not mentioned in the line Drawing. But I believe not all line drawings were updated as production continued. I maybe wrong.... :0
SteveS, I continue to have hope and pixie dust! Trudging along...with research..
Thanks for the loving and comment!
Lee
Sorry to mention it on "Take 27" ... but the color is a better fit for hyacinths than it is for heliotropes ...
:-)
SteveS, LOL! Heliotrope is pretty on any shape :0 :))) EVERYTHING IS HELIOTROPE!!! :))
Couldn't agree more
Have always had my Specs tinted from rose (top) to blue (base) ... so I am sure it is in there somewhere ...
:-)
Here's the thing... this drawing does not represent this exact shape, because this shape is ribbed. Further, as has been pointed out, the notes on this shape say that all the colors were done in a metallized Chiné. So I think there may be an as yet unpublished shape that resembles this one - maybe it will be published one day, or maybe it has been lost. But this color (as evidenced in one of Alisa's private images), is definitely heliotrope, albeit a lighter shade of it.
Warren, I understand and I hope that one day we will have the answer...very excited. Thank you for all your help!
Hi Warren
Think Alisa's pics confirmed the color as one used by Loetz ... but not sure they confirmed it as Heliotrope ...
Have been interested in the "Heliotrope Debate" for some time as it is the basis of the Persica / Pavonia distinction ...and it is good to see the evidence building on tha Pavonia side of things ...
... here I would still favor Hyacinth ...
Cheers
... though it is a close run thing !
:-)
Need something in Cantz / Ricke in either ...
Steve - the museum vase in question was PN 89/LB/23 (L. Boutigny, Paris) as shown in Ricke II, listed in the back as being in (only) decor heliotrop glatt, Decor I/4, which matches Alisa's image precisely.
p.s. I am a trying to remain neutral here :-) ... have both pink Hyacinths and a couple of variants of Heliotrope growing in the garden at work ... can recommend both for any gardeners out there!
Is perhaps the origin of glatt v. ribbed
... although is a little shiny to go with the "flat" that we are used to seeing and I had taken to refer to the level of "glossiness"
So the question becomes are they the same color ... may I be the 1st to volunteer to take it back to czech ....
:-)
SteveS, others have tried to pry one or both vases from my clutches..and to no avail :0 These are my babies...and loving them everyday! Feeling very blessed! Or just very Lucky!
Lee
Also brings STG's beautiful mounted piece back into the frame ...
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/81036-loetz-lavender-chine-mounted-vase
Glatt doesn't meant flat or matte, by the way - it means "smooth"... so I think it could be either glossy or matte and still be considered "glatt" if there were no other surface texture.
Interestingly Cantz and therefore presumably Ricke reference hyacinth (and Aurora which is pink opalescent to blue) as a Rottone and Heliotrop as a Blautone ... Presumably as a a result of the method / sequence in which the chemical elements were added to achieve the the final colours ...
Also of interest that neither are Violettones ...
... occurred to me that Hyacinths do come in pink, white and blue ...
SteveS, I am still learning all this ....happy to keep researching!
Is more a voyage of discovery /rediscovery when you get to these old pieces ...
There is so little documentation to learn from ... really trying to put together clues from other pieces to make a reasoned / useful statement about a newly found one ....
... then hoping your logic is sound ... and be prepared to change if or when new information comes to light ....
SteveS, that is the beauty of taking chances on undiscovered glass :)
Stunning!!!
antiquerose, :))) thank you !!!!!!
Lovely vases moon. I see i neglected to wish you a happy birthday. Belated birthday greetings to you. Great choice of pressys. Love pink glass:)
Vintagefran, I am truly blessed to be able to look at these vases everyday!!! I am grateful....thank you....XOXOX my friend!
nice to know..
BH many thanks