Posted 14 years ago
bahamaboy
(224 items)
The vast majority of silver bars are 999 fine. But there are some refiners that went the extra mile and further refined their product. Drew Silver was one of the latter. Their silver was known to be of the "purest" kind. If you ever have the opportunity to own any Drew Silver, please do not hesitate to buy it. You will not be sorry. This is one of my "top-5" favorite bars in the 10-ounce range. Definitely one to own.
I bought 2 beautiful drew 999 + silver bars today. QUESTION: why is the 10 ounce bar a few fractions over in weight? Ie; 1@10.38 oz. & the other bar is 10.04 oz.
Back in the day, most refiners did one of two things, they poured silver when they had enough to pour it, not caring what it was going to weigh and others just tried to get close. Basically they knew that a particular mold if filled up to "X" would weigh about 10 ounces. Once that pour was cooled, they would throw it on the scale and if it was close, they just weigh it and set it aside. If it were under 10 oz's at all, some would cast them aside and re-melt and re pour with the next batch of silver. The vast majority of these old bars will be just a tad over rather than a tad under. But whatever the finished bar weighed, 99.9% of the time, that was the actual figure, weight wise that was stamped on the bar. Reputation was everything. Some of them had a purity or "fineness of 999 and others went a little further and made their silver more pure and rather than go to the time trouble and expense to call it's purity exact to "the thousandth", they wold just label it 999+ There are some refiners that I have never seen an exact 5 ounce or 10 ounce bar. All are a little under or a little over. Their scales were very accurate, but their pouring methods were not, thus never the exact same weight nor an even weight such as 10 oz's exactly. Many times there were refiners that stamped their bars 10 ounces when if you put them on a very good scale you would see that they weigh 10.08 or 10.12 exactly. But the main reason was that silver around this time was just a few cents shy of $1.00 up to a couple dollars per oz and being off that much "weight wise" was a mere fraction of a cent. Not enough to worry about. Today at $40 per oz for silver & $1460 an oz for gold, every bar that is poured is right on the money. I have a bunch of these old bars and I will say very few weigh exactly what is stamped on them. Most are over the stamped weight because the last thing a refiner wanted to get the reputation of, was selling their bars that were constantly on the "light side". I've rambled a lot here but I hope I kinda answered your question. Congrats on your Drew silver purchase. You would be wise to buy as much silver in various forms as you possibly can afford. People don't understand that silver at $39-$40 and even $10 an ounce higher is a "screaming bargain" and one that if you do buy, one day you'll just kick yourself for not buying more. Take care, good luck and thank you for your comment.
Thank you for your definitive answer. That was very informing, given the method of pouring I wonder how old those bars are? would you have any idea? Thank you again and best regards.
Do these have collector value outside of the silver content or is value just based on the current silver price?
Thanks Ron & Scott. Drew was a refiner, one of many that operated out of the south west silver producing states from the 1950' up to the early 1970's. There were many such refiners that operated out of the same region. As far as value goes, these what are commonly known as "old pour" bars are highly collectible, with Drew silver bars right on up there as far as scarcity and value. For many years now these old pour bars have ALWAYS carried a large premium over their actual silver content. For a bar such as this, from a refiner such as Drew, one would be getting "one hell of a deal" if this 10 oz bar could be procured for a price anywhere between actual silver spot price on up to 20-30% above the actual silver value. I would be hard pressed to accept anything under $600 for this bar which at today's silver price of about $40 per oz making this a premium of 50% above the spot price. The actual silver value of this bar today is right at $400. I can not begin to stress enough for all who read this, to make it their mission in life, to amass as many of these old pour bars as they could get their hands on. I know a little about a lot of things but I feel as if I have a degree in silver investing in general and have studied these old pour ingots and bars extensively. They are a great investing tool to say the least. Thanks again guys for looking and for your comments. Feel free to ask any questions you may have along these "precious metal" lines. Take care & best regards, Kerry
They look interesting-- but not an "investment" I'd want to make.
I remember the silver rush of 1979/80!
There are about 7 billion new reasons that this time and the time you spoke of are not the same. Silver will not/can't go any lower than a 3-7% correction here and there. It would take way too long to explain it here so I won't even try but I will say that the industrial uses now that were not back in 79 & 80 are reason enough. Not even counting two countries that are encouraging their citizens to buy silver and gold. The bigger of the two, China actually had laws back in 79 & 80 that would put you in prison for mere possession of silver or gold. Now they are almost demanding their people buy both. And India did not have it outlawed like China but they didn't encourage it like they are today. And lastly once silver is used, it's not reclaimable for the most part unless it's in coins or bars. But coins and bullion only account for 5-8% of silvers consumption. The other 92-95% is in industry, with photo processing, medical, and electronics, which eat the metal up and once it's used there, it's gone forever. Unlike gold and platinum which are for the most part reclaimable. Silver is not. Silver mines are not producing what they were as little as ten years ago and new discoveries are becoming fewer and fewer. But these reasons I just touched on are but the tip of the iceberg as far as why comparing silver investing today with that of 1979 & 1980 is like comparing apples to battleships. There is no comparison. Anyway as usual I've rambled way too long. Thanks for your comment.
I do like your way of putting it in to prospective on the loss of silver due to industrial uses. Again, love your treasures and thanks for sharing them, Keep hunting and Good luck your way, Regards, Kerry
So many people think we are in a bubble with precious metals in general. It's really sad, cause that could not be further from the truth. But too many remember this time and that time and the "dot com" and the "housing bubble" and all of that and again, it's just really sad. They are missing out on what could be best described as an another American Gold Rush. So many things that no one can control is pushing the metals higher. If everyone stuck their fingers in the dike, they still could not stop the forces that are driving this. It's called modern technology and 6 billion excited screaming Chinamen & Indians. They (both silver & gold) really should be a whole lot higher than they are. For gold to even break the old record of 30 years ago when it went to $850, it would have to be almost $2200 taking into account the just mild inflation we've had. If things were normal, we should be at $2200 gold and $120 silver and that would be nothing but a very conservative price. I love it because I'm continuing to pour every available dollar into silver because at $40, it's being given away. It is so far "north" of a screaming buy, it's pitiful. Anyway, again I've rambled way too much. I think it's pretty clear where I stand on silver. I wish it would slow down a bit so I could buy more at $40 rather than at $50 or $60. But guess what? It's not gonna do it...
Time will tell.
Good luck.
silver just went to $40.91 per ounce, and I just went thru my antique store and pulled all the sterling. I had souvineer spoons that I priced a year ago at $29.95 that weighed in over an ounce.
Bahamaboy: What do you think the the silver price will be by the end of the 2011?
Oh and I meant to say to you rocker-sd that you were wise to pull all the sterling outta your shop. Sterling is either 92.5% or 95% pure silver. That's more pure than a silver dollar which is only 90%. Not that you've pulled it, the wise move would be to stash it away and wait a half dozen years for $200+ an ounce silver and then maybe sell it. Or.... maybe not sell it. Thank you for looking and reading and thank you for your comment.
bahamaboy: Thank you for your reply.
The $82 price by the end of the 2011 would be outstanding,the $53 price would be great.
If I am doing my research and math correct as of 4-8-2011 melt value on a $10 (40) roll of 1964 quarters is now at $296,when the price on silver reachs $200 that same roll of quarters will have a melt value of $1480.
I enjoy reading your posts and comments.
bahamaboy, thanks for all the valuable insite. I think that's what I enjoy most about this site. I have been dealing in Antiques for over 40 yesrs and every time I come on here I am learning somthing new.
Thank you Lee and Rocker. If it's about coins, precious metals or commodities in general, I may have the answer to any question you have. My email address is in one of the comments I made on my very 1st post about the "Banjo Uke" Feel free to email me personally with any questions or concerns you may have along these lines. And Lee, hang on to those silver quarters, and buy a few more if you can. A good silver buy now is the 40% silver Kennedy half dollars (minted from 1965-1969). They carry very little premium if any, above the actual spot price of the metal. Occasionally they can be had for less than spot. Currently they sell for about $120-$125 per roll. Good luck to the both of you and yours.
Scott, Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I'm not selling anything. This does not remotely resemble anything like a late night sales pitch on how to make millions buying properties. I'm just sharing what I know to be facts. As I said before this has ABSOLUTELY nothing in comparison with any other "bubble" that has occurred since I've been alive. Only someone who has been living under a rock for the last 12 years has not seen or heard of what's going on in the entire world's economy's, and would be ignorant of what I've said. I don't get caught up in hype. Never did. And I never follow the "crowd" like a group of lemmings going over a cliff.
I didn't get burned in either the "dot com" bubble or this latest "housing fiasco. Nor was I a buyer when the Hunt brothers tried to corner the market in silver back in the 79-80. I'm a contrarian. I do not follow the crowd. In fact when everyone is running to get involved into something, that's when I don't. I stand back. I look and I watch and I do my homework.
Now I'm very sure that whatever you do, you are probably very good at it. One can't know about everything. Myself, well, I would like to think I'm very good at what I do. I have been studding this subject religiously and have been buying both gold and silver since silver was $3 and gold was $250. I also have a masters degree in business from the University of Florida. And with all due respect, I do know what I'm talking about. You can read. All I did was go into great detail answering the questions OTHER collectors had asked. And I'm not gonna get into some back and forth with you about what should or should not be said here on this site.
It says to please stay on topic and be respectful, which I have. I even said in my last comment that if anyone was interested further, to contact me via my personal email (which several have). But I can tell by your prior comments that you haven't a clue as to the depth of what I'm talking about, and my reasoning's for feeling like I feel, and that's sad like I said. I think maybe you're upset with yourself because maybe you haven't bought any gold & silver for yourself, and wished you had. But then again, maybe you have bought it by the bag-full. Regardless I just find it hard to understand why you have a problem with what I've said here. With all due respect, if you don't like it or can't understand the wisdom in it, then just don't read it, or better yet ignore it. That's about as simple as it gets. Just don't come on here and tell me "in so many words" what and what not to write about or chime in, in an nonconstructive manner along with practically accusing me of being some sort of pitch man out trying to sell precious metals. If you ask me, that is disrespectful. All I said was, if you were smart, you should pick some up. I could care less where. Anywhere. Gold and silver HAVE outperformed all other investments over the last 20+ years and have far exceeded the inflation rate. So you are incorrect on all of your statements above. Yes there has been slight corrections but always higher lows and higher highs and all that aside, it is obvious that you do not study or follow the world economy's and maybe not even the U.S. financial situation to the degree I do, because if you did, even to a small percentage of the degree I study these markets, you'd be in full agreement with me. I have found that those that poo poo this subject are, for the most part, those that haven't invested anything in precious metals and are bitterly disgusted in themselves for not doing so, and feel that the train has already left the station. I have also found that in most cases, these are individuals that haven't a clue as to why all this is happening in the world today, when it comes to gold, silver & platinum, and the investing in the same. I'm just curious as to whoever else reads this, thinks either like you do, or has no problem with that which I've shared. Like I said, if you don't like it, or don't agree with it, don't read it. That's about as plain & simple as it gets.
I think the points that Bahamaboy has made, have made sense. I was around for the Bass Brothers bubble, which made me somewhat of a skeptic. But he is right today there is much more demand for precious metals because of electronics and such. And the world has changed, where other countries are encouraging investment. That said,I don't think anyone should run out and invest all there money in precious metals. But having some of your investments in them could be a wise thing. We are obviously headed for a period of inflation. Who knows what money is going to be worth?
Thanks rocker-sd for your comment. I had several other collectors whose names I won't mention that emailed me, and are in full agreement with me on the subject. What we have here with this other so called collector here on C.W. is that he seems to be under the impression I have the ability to move markets and thus the reason I am "hawking" silver. (his words, and I quote, that I have a vested interest in it. Anyone that owns a single silver dollar or a silver spoon or fork, technically has a vested interest in the price of silver) That's a very strong compliment, but I'm sorry to say, I'm a peon compared to most that are in the silver market. I wonder what part of "It doesn't matter what I say or do or what he says or does, silver is going higher" that he doesn't understand. If I don't buy another ounce of silver ever, the silver I have now, alone, could be my entire retirement by itself, even if it never rises in value by another cent. Not trying to brag but just want to say publicly I wished silver would go down to $35 or $25 or even $20, in order for me to grab more on the cheap. I know, and would stake my life on it, that this just won't occur because of what's happening in the entire world. No one but God himself could simultaneously change the entire worlds governments and economies and individual mindsets with a single sweep of his hand, overnight. And anything short of that, means more of the same that we have presently. Borrowing, spending, printing more money, more spending and more borrowing, etc........ which lends to the fact silver goes much higher from here. It's plain to see that this "so called" fellow collector is, for lack of a better word, an idiot. Uneducated to the point that he probably doesn't know what's happening on his own block where he lives, much less in the city, state, or our country. (I bet I could even guess who he voted for in the last Presidential election) And the "world"??? What world?? You mean to tell me that there are other countries out there with people living there?? I'm not gonna name the guys name because I don't want to embarrass him any more than he has already embarrassed himself. What was that quote from that old movie with Paul Newman & George Kennedy, "Cool Hand Luke" where the warden said, "What we have here is, Failure to Communicate". "Some people you just can't reach". I deleted the last two of the comments made by this person just to save him any more embarrassment and I along with suggestions from three of you that contacted me via email that feel the same, I will go by the assumption that this guy is, and to quote one of you directly, without divulging your name, this guy is far from being the sharpest pencil in the box, when it comes to world affairs/finance and his investment knowledge leaves a lot to be desired. I must agree that I couldn't "agree" with you more in your assessment. And I do agree that his comments should be deleted (which I've done), along with politely asking him to just remove himself from our on-going blog discussion concerning subjects that he hasn't a clue, as to what's going on with. (I won't use the terminology that one of you said in the aspect of "or until he grows a brain". that's actually a little stronger than calling the poor guy an idiot). The subject of why the price of silver is where it is, and why many think this "bull market" ride is just beginning is a mindset and feeling held by many. I will debate anyone anywhere with the facts. But not through innuendo and personal attack accusations. (I've actually stooped to this low level myself is using the term idiot, and to all BUT this other person, I apologize for that) Do your own homework and if you feel the same, well then, act on it. And if you don't agree, well then, don't. In closing I just want to add that I am by far not the only one who feels this way about silver, past, present & future, also that none of my close to 100,000 ounces is for sale now, here, or anywhere else, and that if it ever were to be for sale, no one here at the Collectors Weekly" would know about it. I have bought mine very cheap over the last 20+ years and believe it or not, I'm continuing to buy. Just not as ferociously as in the past. But I just guess I wanted to see others do well in something, in a world that has so much bad news, and with so many people in dire straits, this would help a great many, and probably in a fairly short time. Smart individuals know and realize this. Those that are not very smart will never get it. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". More so if the horse is too shallow to know he's even thirsty. This will be "my last word" on this subject here at C.W. and I ask you scott to not go away mad, but to just go away.
bahamaboy; this am sent you a e/mail,thanks for your input in the silver market,I am now taking a harder look at the 1965 to 1969 40% silver.Thanks again for your input. Lee
Glad I could do it for you Lee. That was my only goal from the git go. It took me a long time to articulate all the facts and then to have someone just lam-blast you for just trying to help is a little much. I will go and check for your email. Several that have been sent ended up in my spam folder and may have got deleted, but I can't believe the response this heated debate has generated, and all the emails I've received have been completely one sided, thank goodness. That is unless you count comments made by one person here. (not naming any names) That was the only negative. Those 40% halves are a great bargain and a great way to play this particular market in my opinion. Good luck to you.
Question for bahama boy: I have two 1 troy pound silver rounds which look like giant silver eagles. The first 1 is dated 1986 and IS stamped on the rim 999 fine silver and has a serial number of 03939. it does however say on the reverse side " UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1 POUND FINE SILVER" As well. SILVER ROUND A NUMBER 2 Has a date of 2001, Is inlaid with red white and blue on ithe walking lady but IS NOT stamped 999 fine silver. IT DOES SAY HOWEVER ON THE REVERSE SIDE " UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1 TROY POUND FINE
SILVER." can you please shed some light on these 2 silver rounds and advise if I should keep them or trade them down to smaller bars ? Any ideas on counterfeit or maybe possibly made them? Thanks very much and have a great day. Caddman2
i like gold and silver. they are both shiny.
Hi caddman2, The U.S. mint started the American Silver Eagle program in 1986. The mints versions are 1 troy ounce each. It was so popular that other refiners minted larger/heavier copies in pure (999) silver. I have seen these "troy pound large silver rounds. They should weigh exactly 12 troy ounces each. If it's stamped 999 fine, then it should be pure. But know this. The Chinese are heavily into counterfeiting. I'm not saying yours is, but any bar/round could be and the only way to know for sure is to test the purity. There are many people that sell kits to test all precious metals and they're relatively inexpensive. If they are indeed pure 999 silver, I'd just hang onto them. I doubt you would be able to improve your silver worth by trading them for other size bars. What I would suggest is just to pick up more silver in various forms. The ones you have, if they're genuine, are worth in excess of $500 each today but realize that having silver in that size is just like having a couple of $500 bills. I think one should have other sizes just because. Envision going shopping with only 500 dollar bills in your pocket. You need some $10 bills and some $5 along worth other denominations so that one day you could get your large bills broken, as in "hey man, can you break a $500 or a $1,000? You need some tens and twenty's too, I think. Apmex.com is a great place for any type precious metal you may want. But know that they are just one of many who sell precious metals. If you pick a dealer, just do your homework and make sure they've been around for a while and have good feedback. The key is to do your homework and pick a silver (or gold) vehicle with the least amount of premium (markup) above the spot price of the metal. Good luck.
And wobbly, I agree with you "wholeheartedly". Thanks for stopping by and for your comment.
Funny to see this one at the top of CW again (4 Years later)-- Time did tell!
scott