Posted 10 years ago
kdantiqued…
(2 items)
Can anyone offer any information about this doll? Do you think this doll has a pouty look? She is marked L8. She is 22 inches tall on a kid leather body with beautiful blue glass spiral eyes and a closed mouth.
Hi I am not seeing a real pouty look however I full photo would help and also would like to see markings . Does she have a plaster Pate under hair ?
I meant to say not a real clear pouty look . Belton type ? does she have holes in top of head ? The body on belton type are generally composition . She looks like a Closed mouth German doll which is very collectible . I will await more photo's and also does it say Germany or anything under leather on back ? She is lovely but I am not seeing a French look tat Beltons are known for in lip painting . In any case need to see whole doll before I would say more :-)
Phil if doll was pouty she would be a character face vs dolly face and much more valuable . In this case the closed mouth is much harder to find and were not made long .The value on dolls has many factors but body construction is important also to see if it was used by French Co and made in Germany the body helps define that . It is a very good doll .
I see her on ebay and she is on a French style body , So German doll head made for French market . I would say she is a closed mouth not really pouty . Her lip paint lacks the defined red out lines that are a higher quality painting . Her head appears to be a Belton type with the hole on top not a full open head .
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRETTY-ANTIQUE-CLOSED-MOUTH-POUTY-BELTON-DOLL-22INCH-/261617955626?pt=US_Dolls&hash=item3ce9a5332a
Hi, Thanks so much for your comments. Any leads on the marking L8 as to who her maker is? You say you saw her on Ebay, do I have her priced fairly? What is the difference between a German body and a French body? Does her size at 22 inches increase her value?
One more question. If her clothes are antique material but machine sewn. Can I claim her clothes are antique?
German Co.Alt, Beck & Gottschalck did use numbers on early dolls and also used these gusseted leather bodies . She can only be attributed to a company with her marks , French used the gusseted bodies more than Germany , although Germany did make them also , There are several styles of kid leather bodies and yours is the most desirable . Since your doll lacks the detail on lips you maybe priced to high for today's market , also they did use sewing machines since mid 1800 so many of the antique clothes are machine sewn and all bisque dolls that came in original clothes made in factories were machine sewn. I have to go back and look at dress again and I reply if I see something that indicates it is not antique .
She is wearing a actual real babies gown not a dolls dress. It is Antique although I am sure collar was added later . The hat is hard for me to see clear it has new ribbons and I do not believe it is as old as dressing gown .
On 2nd look you need to take a pencil and rub over mark on her back I am not sure it is a L ? Then post photo ok you can go to edit and add a photo to this listing .
Hi, You my friend are a wealth of knowledge. Even though the collar of her gown looks to be added later, I have been assured, by the previous owner it is original. I don't think you can see from the pictures that the lace, color and age, is an exact match on the bottom of the gown as well as the collar. The marks are for sure L8. I found one other doll online with this exact mark. That doll was also a closed mouth belton type. Perhaps I should relist her with this new info, although I'm sure most collectors are aware of her French type body. I paid handsomely for her, and hope I can sell her.
The 8 is mold size Kestner did alphabet numbers also but they always said made in Germany . The doll collectors will know when they see her the higer end collectors .
Yes the lace is old but quite common to add after a baby had it . The collar would be to much for a child . I am sure you will see a tiny lace at neckline under the big lace one :-) She is a good doll because of closed mouth . If you wait a buyer will come along . I might add make a offer listing at Buy Now 650 and accepting offers as the doll collectors will tell you what they think of price by offers ,you do not have to accept any offers unless it is in your comfort range . I wish her lips had more detail because she would be gone . I just helped a friend sell a Belton type doll that she had no idea what it was worth and it closed at 1000 but I will add link it has ball jointed body always more desirable as you can pose but look her her lips also :-)) Doll prices have fallen with the internet a few years ago she would have sold quick but the easier availability to locate these dolls has made prices drop :-(
Friends Belton type made in Germany for French Market
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Bebe-type-Bisque-Doll-with-Closed-Mouth-/221569960042?ssPageName=STRK%3AMESINDXX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=X%252BDaGxLv%252BNPmTv2SVJAA7nHzRS8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Your doll would display better without hat on photo's . The hat and collar over power the doll . Just a hint . Let them see her face more and not focus on the large hat .
Hi, I took your advice and changed the main photo on my listing to the full face one I have posted here. I hope this generates more interest, as she really is special and in quite good condition. On another note.....I just acquired another doll marked 769 porzellanfabrik burggrub in my research I see this doll head and number is attributed to simon halbig 1888 it describes this doll as a dolly face, also made as a black doll. She is bisque and composition . I'm not quite sure that she is a dolly face, and await your input. I expect to post pictures sometime tomorrow. Can't wait to share my next mystery!
Mold 769 and star with pb inside is a character doll not by Simon halbig but S hoffmisster spelling might be off I am on tablet and new at using it .I will watch for post!