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Tango floriform trailed vase - gotta be Kralik or is it Welz?

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smiata's loves187 of 3812Loetz Phänomen Genre 1/84 vase with bronze mount, PN 1335/5 for Robert Medeu & Co., Berlin, ca. 1902Red blue/black yellow urn on clear ground - tiger stripe
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    Posted 9 years ago

    IanBrighton
    (573 items)

    This is an interesting floriform rim on a Deco vase. There are five petals and each has a little twist, making the rim appear quite irregular. The blue trail on the rim and the handles/trail all match known Kralik shapes.
    An interesting addition to the shelf.
    23cm tall.
    PS: please read Craig's reasoned shape discussion below - a pleasure to read through, as ever. Hmm! Knowing him, "Not with 100% certainty," means approx 95% certainty plus.
    Well at least most of the glass I'm buying is Bohemian now!

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    Comments

    1. welzebub welzebub, 9 years ago
      I am not agreeing or disagreeing with your suggested attribution.... Also not suggesting an attribution either...... simply pointing out another handle similarity :-)

      http://cf.collectorsweekly.com/stories/ESyKys-8Kz9bd3t-mPqX7Q-smallw.jpg

      Also, it is hard to tell, but it does not appear to have a ground pontil mark. Is that correct?

    2. welzebub welzebub, 9 years ago
      Also curious, if you did not twist the petals to distort them, would they look a touch like this?? Just curious... :-) Just asking some simple questions here. :-)

      http://cf.collectorsweekly.com/stories/U-OqgxqOnxzgNV1o5iorcA.jpg
    3. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 9 years ago
      Craig, you are absolutely right in pointing out the similarities. The clinchers for me at the moment are the rim trail appears to float off the vase at points, separated by clear casing, whereas I think Welz trailed rims are very tightly applied, and that the handle trails have a kink at the start and end in very fine "hairs" of glass.
      But this isn't to say I can't be moved on the issue! You know me better than that!
    4. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 9 years ago
      It doesn't have a ground pontil mark, additionally.
    5. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 9 years ago
      Two great links btw.
    6. AnneLanders AnneLanders, 9 years ago
      nice Bohemian Tango vase
    7. welzebub welzebub, 9 years ago
      For what it is worth, the lack of pontil, and the other two similarities would at a minimum, in my opinion, point away from Kralik as the source.
    8. welzebub welzebub, 9 years ago
      I would add that I have Welz examples with applied rims that are not that tight to the rim itself. I think this is more a reflection of gaffer skill or speed of production.... or both combined. I think an applied rim with no pointil mark is more of an indicator than a sloppily applied rim color. Again, just an opinion.
    9. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 9 years ago
      Got to listen to your years of experience in these matters: are you tending Welz on this? I think so! Or Welz:Kralik:other?
    10. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 9 years ago
      I do not believe a simple ground can swing it: but I am tending to lump all these acid yellow deco vases as Kralik at the mo! ???
    11. scottvez scottvez, 9 years ago
      Great glass and interesting "food for thought" (craig)!

      scott
    12. welzebub welzebub, 9 years ago
      The shape is a new one, especially with that rim. There are three things that I think point towards Welz. Ground colors are in most cases, not a good indicator to me, unless the color is unusual. In that case it can point one way or another.

      The lack of a ground pontil would, at least to me, indicate origins other than Kralik. I can not recall a single instance of an applied rim and no pontil on a Kralik example. Not to say there is not one out there somewhere. I have really identified very little Welz in solid colors, as the identification is really shape specific in almost all cases.

      Being a new shape, I would lean towards Welz based on rim shape and applied glass, trailings and lack of pontil. Am I 100% sure of that..?? Not at all.
    13. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 9 years ago
      Well thought out and reasoned as ever! I have amended the blurb to acknowledge your comments!
    14. IanBrighton IanBrighton, 9 years ago
      Absolutely - none exactly the same but some hints - especially at the foot of page 48 - but, as you write, nothing definite!

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