Posted 9 years ago
philmac51
(210 items)
So I would normally wait to receive my parcel, unwrap, clean and polish before photographing and posting, but I was just too eager to share this fabulous discovery with everyone.
An online auction gift is what I like to call this. Discovered in some remote category on a German auction website with a German language description that none of us English speakers would ever have stumbled upon in a normal search (I mean just the word Glass or Glas in the description would have been helpful). Also, no international postage, although the seller agreed to post to the UK after I made contact. Only 5 watchers over a whole week!! and only 7 bids and eventually bought for an embarrassingly small amount of money.
I suppose it's my obsessive searching for that elusive bargain that I found this rare and slightly weird Loetz Rhinoceros. When I saw it I nearly fell off my chair and then went on a long and fruitfuless search for some sort of reference validation and eventually found this link http://users.skynet.be/fa000612/decorsfigural.htm which some of you may already know about.
Anyway, it's very odd, certainly an artistic impression of a rhinoceros, its ears are way too small and it's head too short - more like a bear's, but it's sort of cute and perhaps deserves a compounded descriptive german noun like "rhinophantasieglas"
It's a pretty impressive size at slightly over 11" in length and 7" high and comes complete with what I assume is a silver saddle. NICE! Just hope it arrives from the Fatherland in one piece. Description said it was perfect with no damage, I will wait and see for myself. I'll post some better images in a follow-up when I have it in my hands.
In the meantime if anyone has any information on this particular Loetz model, I would be very happy to hear from you.
UPDATE 24th Feb 2016
For anyone who has it - please look at page 15 Truitt II, the first plate shows a bunch of elephants and others animals including a Rhino (No. 12124). This is in the section on Palda Glass. Now I know this company produced mostly cut glass, but martele blown glass?? Is it possible that a company, let's say Loetz was making and supplying Palda with ready-made items on to which they balanced decanter and liquor sets - a bizarre idea in itself, but is there something in this??? Or is the Rhino a specific product of Palda Glass Factory? There is some research to be done here me thinks...
Another Amazing Piece !!!!
And A Silver Saddle too !!!
Congratulations !!!
I know, I've been grinning insanely for the last 48hours!!!
Excellent ...!
I Think Rago Auction house sold one in a mixed lot some years ago ... and think it is that one which is on L.Com masquerading as a Boar (under pigs) ...
Great size ! ... Great find !
Thanks Steve - Yes, same one - it's odd, but it's definitely not a boar!
Definitely not a Bore .... Totally exciting !
hahaha! thanks!
Great find! Also great story of the hunt and eventually bagging this one! I do see now that he is a Rhino. The picture we have of him on the site looks like he has two tusks but that just must be the clear glass reflection. Thanks Steve for remembering him from an earlier Rago sale. I will make this change on the site. I can also post better photos of him when you get him if you want to send them my way. Congratulations!
Great find....love it!!!
LoetzDance - will do...
What a fabulous find!! I love your story of how you managed to find it - thanks so much for sharing it!
Another link with some ? Relevance ... :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_(rhinoceros)
... particularly if you are looking for a name ....
Funny feet for a rhino, too!
Thanks Celiene, your quite right - she, she's now a she, is a very strange beast indeed
Thanks to everyone who has responded and the loves of course.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE EXPERTS
For anyone who has it - please look at page 15 Truitt II, the first plate shows a bunch of elephants and others animals including a Rhino (No. 12124). This is in the section on Palda Glass. Now I know this company produced mostly cut glass, but martele blown glass?? Is it possible that a company, let's say Loetz was making and supplying Palda with ready-made items on to which they balanced decanter and liquor sets - a bizarre idea in itself, but is there something in this??? Or is the Rhino a product of Palda Glass Factory? There is some research to be done here I think.
I found another piece from the same collection, but unfortunately the Pinterest user that had the image uploaded closed the account. But the image is still on Google cache and can be seen here https://www.google.com.br/search?q=%22Loetz,+19.Jh.,+KLEINER+ELEFANT+Farbloses,+martel%C3%A9optisch+geblasenes+Glas+mit+silbergelben+Pulveraufschmelzungen.+Applizierte+Sto%C3%9Fz%C3%A4hne,+Ohren+und+F%C3%BC%C3%9Fe%22&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHWA_enBR552BR553&biw=1517&bih=741&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3hdmys6_LAhWKkpAKHQp4DbkQ_AUIBigB&dpr=0.9#imgrc=ZfMSO6E5pXZyhM%3A
There was a description saying "Loetz, 19.Jh., KLEINER ELEFANT Farbloses, marteléoptisch geblasenes Glas mit silbergelben Pulveraufschmelzungen. Applizierte Stoßzähne, Ohren und Füße ..."
Found the original post for the elephant
https://de.pinterest.com/pin/415386765612099764/
And another one
https://de.pinterest.com/pin/415386765612099764/
http://www.kralik-glass.com/loetz-images/animals/lanimal5.jpg
Hey thanks for chipping in mcheconi - you have pointed out what is definitely a Loetz elephant, but it seems this rhino was produced by/or specifically for Palda by someone else, possibly Loetz. It remains to be seen if this mystery can be solved. I'm going to post an update soon with new images.
Good eye, mcheconi! Palda it is then!
Hi LoetzDance - It was me that spotted this was Palda, but it's still intesesting where it was sourced and whether or not Palda actually manufactured it. There also seems to be a few Elephants on this site that may also fit into this Palda group of animals rather than Loetz. The Loetz Elephants have a slopping back and these Palda ones a flat back, obviously to accommodate these bottles and glasses.
philmac51 ... only have the 1st Edition ... Has the piece in question arrived as yet ??
Yes it has Steve
Ok. All of the Palda examples shown in Truitt II seem to have the "silver saddle" on them.
Yes, agreed, and none without the accompanying accessories, but the saddle is really easy enough to remove, basically it's just a plated metal strap secured with a screw at the bottom. Take that away from, say, one of their elephants and it would be easy to mistake one of the Palda models for a Loetz one, specially if one is not aware of this 'decanter range'.
It's also easy to see how easily the animal and the decanter set could be permanently separated, even more easy if say one glass in the matching set gets broken and the owner never reunites the two and perhaps keeps the animal as an ornament and the glasses/decanter used more practically but separately.
Clearly what I now need is a Palda decanter set to fit my 'Clara', guess I could be looking for a lifetime??
Further to this story, the owner told me that it had belonged to his great uncle and that he had owned a shop in Paris in the 60/70's selling vintage/antique glass...
I think you can safely say that your pig is indeed Loetz Alfredo, unlike Clara here.
I remember an earlier post when you mentioned animals and among them you mentioned a Loetz seal!
In Truitt on the page referred to above there is what looks like a seal in the bottom left hand corner! It is interesting or perhaps a little more of a coincidence to think that Palda and Loetz were producing these things at the same time though???
I think the slant back elephants could certainly be an indication for Palda. Do you see any other identifiers that could help distinguish between the two manufacturers?
Hi LD - No I think the slanted back elephants are definitely an indication for Loetz. Flat-backed an indication for Palda. It stands to reason that the Palda shapes would have had, for practical purposes, flat backs to support the decanter sets and for those sets to be supported on a level base. I can't make direct comparisons between a Palda Elephant and a Loetz one as I own neither but from this link (http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/100729-loetz-martele-elephant-and-the-herd) of Alfredo's, I think you would say that this is Loetz, with supporting documentation. There are other smaller elephants though documented on this site that are flat-backed and have the late oval Loetz mark on them so I can't conclude anything only to say that slanted-backed Elephants must be Loetz. Unless and until there is documentation for specifically Martele decor Loetz elephants, preferably with a oval mark from this period in either clear martele or 2 colour martele with a flat back, you could make the assumption that they are Palda.
In my humble opinion of course!
IMHO Loetz supplied Palda....
some Loetz animals Passau on you tube
https://youtu.be/XMAQRTjIqF8
Hi Marty, can you provide a little more info on Loetz supplying Palda, as this is what I suspected may have been the case....?
Just my opinion and one expressed bu other some time ago .
Palda seems to have made pressed glass and these are hand made / blown .
Yes that is the conclusion I came to also.
Pictures updated!
Loetz did commission work for Palda found reference in back of Kantz !!!
will add details later
Brilliant!! - thanks mate, looking forward to it!
commission N0 2192
not sure what it was for yet more digging when have time
are yoiu on FB so can upload photo odf page
Yes I am but you can email me Marty
philmacaulay@mac.com
if that's easier?
Thanks for the information Marty
For those interested:
Kantz - Auftraggeber P.577 - Loetz Com.2192 (1930s) Karl Palda, Haida
The Seal is indeed in Cantz Images No. 260: PN 4824/1
Documented production appropriately in Kristal Glatt
The Elephant linked above from Cantz is a PN 4821 Images No. 017 ... and even includes the variations for Trunk Up and Trunk down seen in Truitt.
(... think there may be other Elephants hiding in there as well !)
The difference in Image No. is reflected in the fact that the Elephant is dated to 1892-3 and the Seal to 1928-9 ... Both are depicted in pen on white paper (as opposed to black background) ...
The difference of 3 in their numbering would suggest the 36 year difference in their attribution is questionable ...
Do you have a year for the Palda catalog ?
Hi Guys
I have an update to this saga:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/185281-loetz-martele-rhinoceros--debate-contin?in=442
hi Leah check the updated version
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/185281-loetz-martele-rhinoceros--debate-contin?in=442
oops wrong posting!! sorry
Well deserved Phil. I've never seen anything like him & think he's wonderful
Thank you Fran - and if you're interested, I followed up on this in a later post with even more info.:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/185281-loetz-martele-rhinoceros--debate-contin