Posted 8 years ago
Chrisnp
(310 items)
Here is the last of my postings of purchases I’ve later come to question, A very nice condition Model 1839 US Oval belt buckle. This is the one I really want Scottvez’s opinion of.
This is the iconic Union enlisted man's buckle of the Civil War, and by far the most well-known and copied. It measures about 3 3/8” across, and is stamped out of brass and filled with lead. The reverse is how one would expect this buckle to look, with its two “arrow head” hooks for the belt and long brass tongue for the belt hole.
I purchased this item from a low-end roadside “antique” shop back in my early 20s. I won’t say how old I am, but Reagan was in his first term. The tag said $35, and wide-eyed I looked at the dealer and asked if it was real. “Sure it is.” was her reply. Hmmm. I wanted it bad enough to believe her. She was kind of cute too, and being a young man, that sort of took the edge off my cynicism.
So, the patina looks real enough, but is it a 150 year old patina? There are a few dings and bumps but no real wear. The arrow heads do not have beveled edges, and the lead coats part of the bend in the belt tongue. Comments? Other observations?
Made like the original but the lead doesn't look that old. Lead is not as easy to age as brass.
Not sure on this one-- the arrow hooks and belt hook looks good. Also the lead back is not the typical reproduction overfill.
I think that it has a chance of being good. Wish that I could tell you more. Most of what we see on here are obvious fantasy plates, which are easy to tell.
Wish that I could be more helpful!
scott
We wish you could too Scott, LOL ! The lead back is just too fresh. I don't know of any way to give lead a convincing aging except with age. If there were, I'm sure it would over-react with the brass & possibly ruin the whole plate. Even balls in old boxes & cased sets turn greyish white even though not exposed to open atmosphere.
Lead color is consistent with a non dug belt plate.
scott
Sorry Scott, but it lacks the non dug colour that it should have attained just in the air, unless vacuum sealed.
Here is an example from Shiloh Relics:
http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?109253
You'll see the same patina on many of the non-dug examples. The color compares favorably to chris' example.
scott
Here is an example with typical dug patina:
http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?113832
scott
Scott, your examples exemplify my point. They show honest lead greying.
The examples are different-- first one shows similar patina to chris' buckle, second one shows a dug patina.
scott
Thanks for the love TassieDevil and fortapache
This buckle is good. Scott is correct. Non dug buckles show very little aging to the lead filled back.If you look at the brass ..it has that honey colored non dug brass patina. The tell tale sign of a reproduction is in the "tongue" and the letter style.Ive been selling and buying CW relics for 15 years.I have a number of both Union and Confederate items listed on Ebay now. ( My ebay name is mplatt6253) Your buckle is spot on for M1839 Enlisted Ca 1863-1865. It should measure 53mm x 86mm.(+-) Its a smaller late war style.An example of your buckle can be seen on page 314 of "American Military Belt Plates" by Michael O'Donnell and J. Duncan Campbell Your plate is shown as example # 507. Nice Buckle! Hope this helps.
"Who was that masked man ?" LOL !!
It helps a lot! Thanks!
Chris