Large Bohemian Art Glass Lidded Jar | ||
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Posted 6 years ago
philmac51
(210 items)
A recently acquired piece with a lovely rich marbling. An unusual shape, with an unusual design for the top knob and very thick amber base. I'm suggesting Kralik, but it could be any number of other makers as this décor has pretty much been attributed to them all.
Stands an impressive 9" (22cm)
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This is a beauty, Phil, and an inspired lid/bowl fit which doesn't interrupt the overall shape at all.
looks like yew branches overwhelming a sandy soil
first class philmac
1412
The décor of this beautiful jar is known from other items made by 'Kunstglasfabrik Gebrueder Funk&Co' Bohemia
Love it! Fab shape! Fab decor!
Very unusual and lovely!
WOW! Kairomalte, I was going to say Gebruder too, as there is another lidded jar with a very similar decor, and the label we found a couple of years ago. Except this example is truly original, with the combination of the dark spatter base, the finial shape, and the jar angular body. Here is the image of the one I was referring to.
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/6f/96/59/6f9659a290692fa3e8a2d1dda0e5c2ae.jpg
This type of 'threaded' patterning and similar has been seen on virtually all art deco pieces whether Bohemian or not and attributed to pretty much all of them. What evidence is there to say so categorically that it is G&F. Any actual evidence to support this?? If so, I would be very interested to see it.
IMHO, these types of "swirled" decors can be extremely difficult to ID positively. At a very minimum, Kralik is also known to have produced pieces in a decor very similar to this decor, and it is found on marked examples in at least two different ground colors..
I am of the opinion that the shape of this piece would be the key to identifying the house that made it.
The decor on the linked example in comment 6 above is similar, but not one I would say is the same as this one. This is very fluid in appearance, and the linked example has "zigzag" striations in the decor, most likely from "combing" the surface during production, which this example does not have.
Really great piece, regardless of who made it.
Very nice lided jar
For comparative purposes, I placed an image of this example side by side with the linked image in comment 6, which it seems is being suggested to be the same decor/production house. They do not appear to be the same, at least to me.
http://www.kralik-glass.com/images/DecorCompare.jpg
This image shows the piece in this post, in comparison to known Kralik production in a similar decor, and on several different color grounds. Do I think Phil's piece is Kralik? Not really.....
http://www.kralik-glass.com/images/DecorCompare2.jpg
All I can say is that I think that identifying the shape will be key to identifying who made the piece.
Thanks for that Craig.... it was actually the pieces in the last link you posted above that made me think it may be Kralik. I also agree that the KGF&Co sample, if that is what it is, is certainly not similar enough to attribute this to them.
We have been discussing these decors for several years without coming to any firm conclusions, except for the few marked Kralik pieces. The fact that Kai mentioned Gebrueder might be considered, I think. His sources and experience might have contain information we don't have. here are 3 vasese with the KGF label, again a pale beige color with an applied swirl in brownish colors, and a few spatters. Frankly I don't find any of our Czech glass examples that helpful, this posted piece is unique in its shape and molded spattered base. I was only exploring the new direction that Kai gave us. There might be more from that company we should be aware of, that's all my comment and example meant. This is still a gray area for me anyway.
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/09/12/d3/0912d384ee2bd7940be9d9d5033d5ca0.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/03/1e/c4/031ec484aef454938c3cb35cb4ad685f.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/ea/79/63/ea79630e967f1dc824d2fb22c95654b8.jpg
It would be helpful to all if Kai could provide some images of clearly attributable KGF&Co examples in this décor. As has been said before these décors are and have been extremely hard to identify to a specific maker (with few exceptions) and if there is some information available, I, and others who are interested, would like to see it.
I struggle to understand the relevance of three images of Gebruder Funk pieces with labels, in three completely unrelated decors.
Agreed, not entirely helpful.
The shape of this jar, from my limited perspective, would fit with the Gebruder Funk style and I too would love to see an example with a label. If kairomalte has information about Funk that can be shared, it would be greatly appreciated.
Gebruder (correctly with an umlaut) is German for "brothers". Kunstglas is German for "art glass". In English, Funk Brothers is probably a more appropriate name than "Gebruder".
The relevance has to do with seeing Art Glass in various decors we are not familiar with, by a company we also know little about. It gives a much bigger range of possibilities when identifying glass for that period. For me that matters.
Here I think this very similar ground with same decor pattern, but in a very different shape.
A very well experience member as ID TO Kralik.
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/157031-kralik-czech-art-deco-furnace-decorated
The point is similar doesn't equate to same, and shouldn't be the basis of an attribution:
"We have been discussing these decors for several years without coming to any firm conclusions..." (post #12) and yet without any "firm conclusions", an attribution is identified--- "... I was going to say Gebruder too, as there is another lidded jar with a very similar decor, and the label we found a couple of years ago."(post #6)
Concurring with an attribution with the HOPE that "[h]is sources and experience might have contain information we don't have." (post# 12) would just seem to muddy the water.
I prefer a more measured, scientific approach to attributions over speculation, guesswork and hope.
scott
I would note that I have known Kai personally for quite a long time, commencing long before any involvement in this forum He is a founding member, and listed as such, on my website with 26 others. (yes Lisa, your review of my "All About Glass" article that claimed that I failed to give credit to the people that helped in the beginning, was completely false.)
I have all the respect in the world for Kai's knowledge and experience, as does he for my work on Welz and on my website. If Kai states that this decor is seen on Gebruder and Funk production, I would not doubt that in the least.
I would reiterate though, that IMHO these types of decors are extremely difficult to attribute, especially by decor alone, and that the end attribution for this piece, if ever found, will come from identification of the source of the shape.
I would also note that many of us here that have done this for 10, 15, 20 years or more, have both experience with, and knowledge of Gebruder Funk production.
Some of us here don't have the advantage of studying glass for the last 20 years. Personally, I have taken a liking to the Funk Brothers products I have seen and am just wishing that some of the accumulated knowledge was more public.
The #6 picture has been around for a while - I'd like to see some new ones.
I must say that I am not questioning Kai's knowledge or experience in identifying glass, just saying if the knowledge is there and there is something to substantiate that either through photographs or published material then I would like to see it, as I assume others would too. I'm happy with a general concensus on Gebruder, and although my experience is not as extensive as others, from what I have seen of Gebruder pieces so far, is that they are faily simple, I have never seen anything this complex from them. Alan's link above is interesting and the décor much more aligned to this piece as is Craig's link... my only basis for suggesting Kralik, and with that doubt - the Kralik name is not in the title of this post.
Anybody got any examples of complex shapes by Gebruder Funk??
To the best of my recollection, the known examples I am familiar with a fairly simplistic forms, but there is likely a reasonable amount of their production that remains unidentified.
I will email Kai and ask him....
I have to say... why the hell would they do this "Ziggy stardust" foot?
That is one of the many reasons I live Czech glass- "why the hell would they do that" decor. I always like opinions on these types of pieces because it is a mystery- here are my comparisons...
although the marbling effect shows great similarities to funk decors the angular zigzags remind me of Ruckl (dreaded Ruckl)... the shape and foot has the most similarities to Kralik or Tomschick (aaaah- dredid Tomschick).
http://rover.rajce.idnes.cz/Tango_sklo/#11_tango_sklo_z_Teplicka_A-_firmy_-_Franz_Wetz_Hrob_u_Teplic_B_-_Franz_Tomschick_Kostany_.jpg
Kralik does seem the most likely to me because of the solid-mold foot; it appears on many bowls and a few vases where the color is very thick (like French deco glass). but if the glass is just a weight for the whole piece... why did they bother to apply a layer of confetti glass to it?
so Ruckl for me and here is a similar ugly duckling
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154544378694373&set=gm.320905108267677&type=3&theater&ifg=1
here some more dreaded Ruckl glass vases, in shapes I have identified: with the swirls decor on red. Frankly, as we have said before, must be several producers of this style of decor:
https://nebula.wsimg.com/b152749793645d8521a34f36c1d9d5de?AccessKeyId=3A908495ACD7ABD44DFC&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Thanks for the link Jericho.... But for now I remain unconvinced of the Ruckl attrib.
My obersvation of the pic in the post above (and similar ones in previous posts) has a vertical physical ribbing, which can be felt and seen and appears to help facilitate the way in which the coloured threading looks. ie. the zig-zagging of the threading. There are many similar pieces around that exhibit this same characteristic. My jar does not have any of this ribbing and so there is no zig-zagging of the threading. The pattern on my jar appears more organic in form.
Does this mean that the image in the last post is not related to the manufacturer of mine? Truth is I don't know. But there are clear differences in the manufacture and application of the décor so for me, for now, it remains something of a mystery. And I agree with Craig that finding a known décor on this shape may be the answer to the manufacturer.
Unless it is a 'one of' for whatever reason. If none of us have seen this shape before, that is a huge number of Czech glass pieces we can compare it to. Kai says Gebruder Funk, then that is one possibility. Unless he meant the decor only, not the shape.
It was Kai's intention to simply inject a reminder that there are a number of makers outside of the Kralik, Welz, and now Rückl that everyone seems to want to turn to as a source for production.
He is also of the opinion, as am I, that the ID will be found as a result of identifying the source of the shape, and not through the decor on this example.
The decor on the red one in the link in comment 25 is a less colorful swirl than Phil's piece. It is also a partially combed decor, which is how the zig-zag portions of the decor are created. The pliable surface of the glass is combed with a metal devise with tines.
It is not the same decor as Phil's, and should not be confused as such.
I have made 2 posts about that red vase's decor (Jericho's) and it's shape recently, one is about this decor on 3 of my vases which I concluded I did not know who the producer was:
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/251467-that-swirl-glass-decor-again--trio-of-v?in=user
And I did another post with several of my other vases in the same shape, which also causes me to hesitate about every one of them, being from the same producer:
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/251002-my-ruckl-collection--one-vase-shape-fi
Nobody said it was the same decor, the fact the red vase was combed with a metal device tells us how it was worked. We had already decided Phil's piece does not have those vertical lines so nobody is confused IMO.
I have directories full of pieces that are similar, but different. I am simply curious what the point is if the examples do not really relate to Phil's piece?
If we are discussing that several companies made a "similar" decor, that was established by Phil in his original post, and confirmed multiple times in the discussion.
"I have made 2 posts about that red vase's decor (Jericho's) and it's shape recently, one is about this decor on 3 of my vases which I concluded I did not know who the producer was: "
IMHO those three vases have substantially different decors on them than Phil's example. "Similar" does not equate to being the "same". Those three vases could just as easily be by different houses, as they could be three similar (yet different) decors on three vases by the same house.
Here is a side by side comparison, which makes the decor differences compared to Phil's reasonably obvious.
http://www.kralik-glass.com/images/SwirlDecors1.jpg
The enjoyable art of conversation between glass collectors, just as Kai pointing out there may have been more potential producers, that was his take on the matter. We have given our various views about Phil's pieces, and the topic of this specific decor.
We are reviewing again what we know and don't know, including Gebruder.
The shape matters, but then even the shape can lead you nowhere sometimes. That's all.