Posted 6 years ago
IronLace
(928 items)
A recent purchase, this unusual piece of Burmese glass was obtained for a very reasonable price. One of those rare "sleepers"...& don't we all adore a sleeper item if we're lucky enough to snap one up.
This vase is unlike any Burmese glass I've seen - the shape is reminiscent of a hyacinth vase, with the cupped top...& an "M" crimp makes it even more interesting.
It was sold as Webb Burmese, but the shape confounds me...I am just not familiar with this as a known Webb shape.
The vase measures 15 cm tall, around 7 cm across the "M" crimped top rim, & 7.5 cm across the base, which has a slightly rough pontil mark (not polished out as Webb Burmese tends to be). It has the familiar Burmese colouring, a pale custard yellow shading to a soft salmon pink at the top...& there is even a small speck of pink underneath...caused perhaps by a touch from something hot, which made the heat reactive gold in the mixture strike pink.
I have one other vase with an "M" crimp, which turned out to be early Loetz...& I am already certain that Welz made their own version of Burmese. To me this looks a more than a little Bohemian, & quite unlike Webb Burmese. It is definitely old, not modern Burmese by Fenton, & was purchased from the U.K. If it is by Webb, then perhaps a slightly later piece, as the shape has an Art Nouveau style to it rather than the high Victorian forms of their earlier designs.
Anyway, regardless of it's provenance, it's simply a gorgeous & unique example of Burmese glass that has found a very happy new home in my collection!
Very interesting! You already own Burmese done by Welz, and here's a link to an "M" crimp done by Welz.
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/244405-a-welcome-addition-to-my-welz-collection
Many thanks, sklo42! And that Welz "M" crimp looks bang on...looks like I've bagged some more Welz Burmese...
If you have, well done, it's pretty and at a nice price too!
Cheers for the rather interesting link you sent...more "M" crimp Burmese! If I hadn't just spent somewhat too much for a Kralik vase, I'd go for them! Anyway, added to my watch list...
Of course it's Welz.
That Welz M rim crimp which was used often, and the slight size, and the burmese decor which they already have in the fan with a 3 ball Welz footings.
I think it's another life light.Very nice.
stunning soft & gentle what a beauty my ironlace
thanks for sharing
1412
I don't think it is a life light. Life lights have their very slender stem to minimise the amount of oil necessary in use.
There's no, "Of course" about it. The shape will have to be identified as Welz for it to be Welz. IronLace herself mentioned at least one other maker of the "M" crimp.
Sorry, but I have to chuckle.... that my biggest critic in this forum, who denies documented research results relating to Welz, who among other things, attributes Welz documented in production literature Kralik on their website, and who seems to think their glass production facility was a coal facility..... is now going to identify Welz production..... I fear the world as we know it, is being sucked into a distortion in the space time continuum.....
This will be a lengthy explanation, but I think it is warranted.
Several points need to be considered in evaluating this, and other similar examples. So here are some questions one should ask themselves.
1) Are the colors in the piece consistent with known examples by any maker?
2) Although Welz used the M crimp, I am not of the opinion, and never have been, that the crimp is a Welz marker for production. In light of that, what other companies are linked to M crimp production?
3) If other companies are known to have used the similar crimp, is the production consistent with any known examples by that firm?
3) Is the shape known?
4) If the shape is known, is it known in specific decors that can be identified as production by a specific house?
5) Does "size" of a piece relate in any way to the maker, or did most production houses make vases in varying sizes.
6) Are artifacts of any production techniques present on the example?
7) If production technique artifacts are present, are they consistent with other known or identified examples by any firm.
Now, that being said, I have seen examples like this before, a pair of them actually, and I have assigned them an "unidentified" status.
If one compares the coloration on this example, which is consistent with the others I have seen, the pink is different, and the basic ground color is lighter than the very limited number of known Welz examples of Burmese production. That is the biggest issue in attributing the piece to Welz.
As an example, if one looks at Webb production in Burmese, it becomes clear that their Burmese production colors are consistent from piece to piece. This is as a result of the batch formulas used to create their glass. One finds the same consistency within most known production lines.
Known Welz examples are much more in line with Webb Burmese coloration than this example, and others I have seen.
I have seen at least 3 differing examples of production using an M crimp which resembles Welz's M crimp, but the colors are not consistent with known Welz production. Those examples have all exhibited consistent ground and heat struck coloration consistent with them being from the same production house.
So what we have in this example is a coloration similar to Burmese production, but in different "shades" than either known Welz or Webb production. The colors are consistent with other known examples which remain unidentified. The shape is not known to be Welz production, and to me at least, unknown as to maker.
I think this is a great piece of glass, but attributing it to Welz at this point would be premature. Although it would be easy to make that leap, I feel it would be unwarranted, and unsupportable. Substantially more evidence would be needed, and at this point in time, we simply do not have it.
A great example of a measured, scientific approach to attributions!
scott
A discussion piece no less! Beautiful too, and it's a neat piece to arouse such interest.
Thanks for your thoughts, truthordare. It's a vase that is both pleasing to the eye & fascinating in terms of provenance.
Many thanks, MALKEY, yes it a delicate beauty, & I'm very pleased to be its custodian.
Thanks also for your thoughts, sklo42. I am rather intrigued by the debate that this piece is creating. :-)
(May I also please add that my pronouns are they/them/theirs/themself rather than she/her/hers/herself...no offence taken but just wanted to get the message out there politely so we're all on the same page.)
Thanks also welzebub for your detailed & thoughtful response. It is certainly interesting to speculate on the possible origins of this piece...& perhaps the topic of "Bohemian Burmese" can eventually become a new area of discovery in the field of Victorian art glass.
Thanks also, scottvez!
It's definitely a talking point, racer! :-)