Book, "Portraits From North American Indian Life" by Edward Curtis | ||
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Posted 13 years ago
michelleam…
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This was a gift to my Mom from friends from Santa Fe. It is an extraordinary book, I know some of them are very valuable, but I'm not sure if this one is. The plates are stunning. I would photograph all the plates if I had the time to share with you all. The intro by T.C. McLuhan is amazing. This book is a treasure, but I don't know if it is a valuable one!! Thank you, Mich
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Can we see some more please?
Thank you Mani and walksoftly, I will post more plates as time permits, hey, I had a productive Sunday and got a few things posted, yesterday!! Thank you, Mich
Thank you, Bellin! Mich
I have this book also, it's awesome! It's also huge!
Stef, if I may ask a favor of you, I have included the page with the Copyright of 1972, but I'm not sure if this book is from this year. Could you look at the corresponding page and see if the dates differ in any way? I am not sure if this was the "First Edition", or from later years. As you said, these books are very heavy, so if it is out of reach, please don't inconvenience yourself. I am very curious about this as a friend of mine said it does make a difference in the value. I just want to copy every plate and hang them everywhere on my walls!! Love, Mich
Mine also says 1972. Here's what it says on the copyright section: "Reprinted by arrangement with Outerbridge & Lazard, Inc. Standard Book Number 0-88394-3
Library of Congress Catalog Number 72-83825 Copyright 1972 Outerbridge & Lazard, Inc. First published in the United States of America in 1972...." etc.
Oops, if I'd looked closer, I would have seen that you photographed that same info. Mine is the same as yours, but probably in poorer condition, LOL!
Although the book is copyright, I wonder if the images aren't in the public domain, since they are so old? It would be wonderful to have them scanned and framed. The photos are amazing.
I wonder if that means they were both the 1972 Edition. I am surprised that there is no other date. One would think they would say, original copywrite 1972, and then 1974, or some other date, hmmmmm, another mystery. If it is the first edition??? Mine is inscribed to my Mom by a friend of hers who worked on the movie Koyaaniscatsi(sp) with her, and was later imprisoned for child molestation...Yikes. He was one of those art suck Santa Fe sycophants, who was too cool for school and molested his girlfriend's daughter. So the inscription is one I wish was not there!!!!! Thank you for looking, Mich
stef I thought the same thing, but on my book it does say that these images are not permitted to be reproduced. I'm sure they won't mind if I photo the plates for the CW community, we are a harmless bunch!! Mich
stef, that was 1972, but like the old ansel adams, I think the family, in this case Curtis family control the rights, but it is worth investigating because if you did Sepia copies of these at original size they would sell like hot cakes!! Mich
Oh, I think that's ok. I didn't check the copyright info.
Back to the copyright... I've been doing a little investigating, and one thing that puzzles me, is that it says it's 'reprinted with permission from Outerbridge & Lazard, Inc.' which implies that there is an earlier Outerbridge & Lazard edition. I found an online auction for the book which claims it's a first edition Outerbridge & Lazard, but then when you read the particulars, it's the same as ours. Except the binding on the edge is blue instead of the cream color of our editions.
I would certainly never attempt to sell them, but might use some of them in my artwork. They are exquisite!
Is this publisher still in operation?
From Wikipedia:
Copyright Act of 1909 - extended term to 28 years with 28-year renewal
Universal Copyright Convention - ratified by the U.S. in 1954, and again in 1971, this treaty was developed by UNESCO as an alternative to the Berne Convention
All reference to this company dates to books in 1972-1973, if I understand the the law listed above the copyright would have run out in 2000 unless it was renewed.
Does anyone else have thoughts on this?
You could watermark a few images & post, I do this with all the images that I post.
No, I don't think that's correct. Anything before 1923 is in the public domain, from 1923-1964 there's a limited copyright, (with definite restrictions). After 1964, I don't even touch. The book copyright is still valid. The issue is the photos. Are they still under copyright since most of them were created before 1923? It's like someone writing an art history book about the paintings of the Renaissance. The book is copyright, but the paintings are in the public domain. (Although it could be argued that the photography of the paintings might be under copyright). This is always a confusing area.
They have already been posted on line, do a google image search on the book title;
Portraits From North American Indian Life by Edward Curtis
I'm actually thinking of scanning the photos from the book myself, and using them for art projects, not getting them from the internet. I doubt if every single one of them is online. But then again, I might not!
Absolutely confusing. I have had so many people ask me over the years to make copies of different plates, and mainly because I was trying to protect the book, I mostly said No!! But...I have always wondered, because I have a good friend with a printing store..., if we could do Sepia copies at the size in the book, frame the, or sell them as loose prints. Everyone who has ever seen the plates wants "all of them!!!". This is something I have thought about for many years as we have a super hip little seaside market weekends in my town, and it would be a great place to sell the prints...but would I be breaking the law??? I wouldn't want to go down for "copyright infringement". I wouldn't last a day in prison, unless, maybe, they had 600 count sheets and chocolate Ice Cream...How do we find out so that My Printer friend and Myself can go into Business?? The last few years have been tough on your average starving artist, or Collector, for that matter!! Well, if it IS legal, I shall commence production immediately!!! If you do the same, Stef, we should work together so as not to work against each other on Ebay!!. I think I will just tell my Printer buddy, if he will do the prints, I will split the profits with him. I am sure these are not "public domain" because it seems we would have seen many more reproductions, which I have never seen, and I know all the plates. Very interesting....yes, yes, very interesting!! A fun project to explore, IF it is LEGAL, aargh, Alright, we need an expert on copyright stuff. Help, is there a copyright attorney in the house??? Have fun, Mich
Scanning them into the computer might be a different beast then selling prints of them...hmmm...It's a great idea and my town would love them, what to do!! Or if I sold a Sepia colored print on EBay, would I be breaking the law? Thank you for helping get to the bottom of this question which has plagued me for years...can I do this project with my Printer friend, as there certainly appears to be a Market for them, at the right price...Mich
walksoftly, I'm sorry, I forgot to ask you...what does "watermark a few images" mean? I am a novice to so much of this technical and photographic stuff. Thank you, Mich
See, I think this is where the problem lies... it's one thing to scan them for yourself, but if you scan them to sell, then you'd need to check with the family about the copyrights. The book itself is protected by copyrights, that is clear. The individual photos.. not sure about. There are ways to do online copyright searches, but I'd have to dedicate myself to finding out. It's also possible to license the photos- where you'd give the family a percentage if you think you could make a decent amount of money from them. It might be worthwhile to check with the publisher.
Stef, and that is where the 600 count sheets and chocolate ice cream come in!! I have never been one to love boobeaucracy, or manuever it well, though I have other organizational talents, the wading through the copyright laws would probably KILL me, yes, I surely would die of boredom, which is why it has remained a question for so many years, because I am, technically, too lazy to get up off me arse and do anything about it!! Heck, it took thirty years for me to go through my Grandparents estate boxes...it seemed I "was busy" for all those years!! I appreciate the thought everyone has put in, who knows, maybe one day our copyright attorney will come...
A watermark is an embedded image in something you want to keep others from reproducing, currency, certificates, pictures, etc.. If you look at all my old pictures you will see rows of this text in the picture.
Walksoftly Reproduction of this image in any form is not authorized
Others can still enjoy it but anyone wanting to reproduce it will have to work very hard to get rid of the text.
I use this program as it is easy to use & it's free
FastStone Image Viewer 4.6
If you have any more questions just ask.
Walksoftly, that just flew over my head!! I am learning as I go here about the photos and computer. 50 with no kids, it's tough to figure all this stuff out!! Are you a photographer? I wonder if you might look at the photo that is either tinted or early "colorized film" by Harold A Taylor. We are trying to figure out who he is, and if the photo is tinted or an early invention of his, "colorization". The photos are terrible and I will try to get better one's taken this weekend. Butterfield's had two of his photos in auction under Fine Art Photography, but it is hard to find anything out about the elusive Harold A. Taylor. Thank you, Mich
I'm sorry, walksoftly. The photo is under Harold A Taylor, photograph, in my posts. The Eucalyptus tree. Thank you, mich
I'm sorry that flew over your head, maybe you could borrow a kid from someone. I like taking photos & I love old photos but I wouldn't call myself a photographer. Hopefully someone will be able to help you out on that other photo.
I will post the plates for those of us here, as I'm sure that's ok?