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Posted 12 years ago
ho2cultcha
(5051 items)
i found this old print ages ago and recently framed it and hung it on my wall. the skyline in the back appears to be a world's fair or something. on the back is a large, handwritten 83B. I'd love to know more about it. the piece is 12" x 8". thanks!
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Hi, what kind of print is it?
The style of the art looks to be '20s or early '30s, but it's hard to tell from a photo if your actual print is that old. I love how most of the gents are wearing spats! It's wonderful!
Hi, stefdesign. Yes, I love this painting!!!
stefdesign, may I ask, would you mind taking a look at a Show and Tell posting of a friend? We know you know art, and would like your opinion. I am hopeless on cases like the one linked here:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/56396-what-is-it?in=user
Thanks so much! miKKo
i assumed that it's a lithograph, but i'm really not sure. i found it in a folder with a whole bunch of cut-up covers of Saturday Evening Posts and other magazines from the teens and 20s.
i had never paid much attention to this piece, but i found a partial signature on it yesterday. in the lower left corner, it says 'ISER'. this made me curious, so i began to research it some more. the plane is a Curtiss JN-4D 'Jenny' - a very rare plane, but very popular amongst the 'Barnstormers' of the early 1900s. There are two women pilots in the painting as well. One of them looks like Amelia Earhart, but could be one of the other early pilots. I think the pilot is Charles Lindbergh. I haven't been able to find another copy of this image anywhere, but hopefully i'll find out more about it. I'll leave a note here when/if i do.
Marvelous! Can't wait!
i'm bringing this to show the director of the oakland aviation museum today. i'll let you all know what transpires.
so i met w/ the director at the oakland aviation museum today and before she took a look at it, she said 'i was just looking at the pics and by the colors, i'd say it's from the 1970s.' then i showed it to her and the folder of items i found it with and she looked at it, took a deep smell of it and quickly changed her mind. she thinks it's a very, very great poster and very rare too. she's not aware of another one, but thinks that they are real people - pioneers of aviation. i am certain that it's vintage 1920s - without even a tiny doubt - just from the folder and everything else which was in it. now what do i do with it? i want to find out more about it. she doesn't think it's a jenny and told me why - which makes total sense to me, but she couldn't tell me what kind of plane it is either. i think that the pilot in the plane is lindbergh. i'd love some more guidance around this piece.
Maybe you could ask Nicholas D. Lowry at Swann Galleries? He's a poster expert who you would regularly see on the antique roadshow. Chances are he wouldn't mind taking a quick glance at your photos.
Hi, there, ho2cultcha! Marvelous news for you!
OK. let's see. I'm very ignorant about airplanes and flight - I just love old planes and can recognize a fabulous piece of art when I see it. I can only advise you as to what I'd do, and I advise you now that it might be a goofy course of action. I speak fluent goofiness. I would contact the office of the Associate Director of Collections & Curatorial Affairs at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. It's one of the Smithsonian Institution's museums, and it is wonderful. Here's a link: http://airandspace.si.edu/museum/departments.cfm
Secondly, I would ask the Research Librarian at the nearest large public library for suggestions on how to proceed. Best wishes for success. It's fabulous!!!Regards, miKKo
There you go -- a non-goofy suggestion from ulsurfer! Great idea!
Wow! Great news for a great piece of art! Keep us updated when you get further information!
thank you folks. nothin' goofy 'bout those suggestions! i appreciate all of your comments and suggestions a whole lot. on my own, i tend to get all excited about something... and then do NOTHING about it. but i'm going to follow mikkochristmas11's advice right away. the director of the oak aviation museum suggested someone who is often on the roadshow from san francisco who is an expert in printing processes. she couldn't remember his name, but suggested that i look for him and let him know that she recommended him. anyone know who she might be referring to?
i have so much stuff i just hoard away, and it's not doing anyone any good that way. today, i gave away a nice piece to a young man who has been a wonderful neighbor for the past 6 years and is graduating from high school. it felt really good giving him something of value. i have some amazing things - well, to ME, they're amazing, and i think they might be amazing to other people, but i'm not positive yet. i really appreciate those of you who take the time to give feedback to me [and others]. i will try to do the same when i'm able. i'll let you all know what the folks at the smithsonian have to say - if they write back.
on another note, can anyone recommend a very good painting restorer in the bay area?
i've written to the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum - using their online contact form. Meanwhile, i spent too much time in their archives which have loads of good info. i have changed my mind about the identity of the women pilots. I think that one of them is Florence Klingensmith and the other is Laura Ingalls. Both of these women have really fascinating stories - which i was completely oblivious to until now. the fun continues...
Hi, ho2cultcha! Marvelous! Can't wait!
Everyone loves that museum. Always a crowd there. So glad the website was helpful.
Regards, miKKo
so i received a letter from Elizabeth Borja, CA, Reference Service Assistant at the Simthsonian Air and Space Museum. She suggests that it is the inauguration of airmail servie on May 15, 1918 and says that it appears to be a Curtiss JN-4H [one of the Jennies]. She sent lots of reference photos and an article. That's very kind of them to be so generous w/ their time and resources.
At the same time, i feel pretty strongly that the information is not correct as it pertains to this poster. I'm fairly certain that it cannot be a Curtiss, because of the placement of the single pilot seat - between the middle of the three sets of struts. I think it is one of the De Havilands - maybe a 4D - which was put into airmail service in 1920. Also, the presence of the women pilots would not make sense for the May 18, 1918 event [or even any american airmail event ever]. i'm fairly certain that these details of the poster are not irrelevant or artist's license. so the mystery continues...
if anyone can recommend another source of information about early aviation historical events, please let me know. thanks!
I think it is a "Jenny" based on the front of the engine cowling, but the artist has left out some key features such as the air outlet fins on the lower cowl, & the engine head/ exhaust manifold on the upper cowl. So the artist may have also left out the second seat.
Sadly none of this helps ID the image :-(
I'm an old time A&P(aircraft mechanic) since '66 who know little about this early a plane but think artistic license was used. The cockpit is too forward for a single seater. Because of weight & balance factours, the pilots seat should be just aft of the trailing edge of the upper wing unless it had a really long empennage. Just an educated guess & might give thought to more artistic license. Never would have noticed if I hadn't stopped to look at the site. I say a jenny with A/L.
i can only go by what i find on the internet, but i found a photo of a de haviland when they were first brought over from england and being modified which had the single bay placed squarely between the struts. it also had the flat / sloped cowling, but it also had a covered engine head plus it had the multiple struts. it also had a 'hood ornament' which looked identical to the one in the poster. they went thru quite a few modifications at the time and many one-of-a-kinds were produced for a particular purpose. around that time, they were being modified by the army for carrying bombs and machine guns, and for airmail, as well as for general barnstorming. my feeling is that although there may be some artistic license, the general features are accurate to the plane in the commemoration.
i also think that the background skyline is more likely Tampa or some other large city than the Potomac.
i just added a better photo to this poster which is still very mysterious to me.
The image got me thinking of promotional material for world fairs or other expositions.
In 1928 there was an exposition held at Long Beach, California:
The Pacific Southwest Exposition, the buildings were built in a Tunisian style, the buildings in the background of your print give that impression.
They did have one exhibit on transportation achievements.
Link;
http://expoguy2.blogspot.ca/2009/01/long-beach-1928-pacific-southwest.html
no, it doesn't have any other words on it. it appears to be a silkscreen - even though there is a half-tone in part of it. i think that it commemorates a barn-stormer event of some sort - which was held in a big, early airport. by the style of the spats, i think it was 1914-16.
i take that back after reading walksoftly's comment. the moorish influence was popular in the mid-to-late 20s.
thank you walksoftly!!! i think you helped me solve the mystery! i now think that this is Arthur Groebel in the airplane at the Pacific Southwest Exposition in Long Beach in 1928. He is on his way to make the first non-stop, transcontinental flight from West to East. The day before, he received the distinguished Flying Cross at the Exposition - in front of 25,000 adoring fans.
"In August 1928, Goebel and Harry J. Tucker made the first nonstop crossing of the United States from west to east, flying a Lockheed Vega 5 monoplane dubbed Yankee Doodle"
As mentioned that plane was a monoplane, so not the one in the print.
Even the one used for the Dole record was a twin seat configuration, as needed for the navigator.
I still think we are on the right track, for it to be connected with the Pacific Southwest Exposition in Long Beach in 1928
i think so too. the buildings definitely match the skyline here.
as well as the slew of pilots - men and women.
Thrilling discussion walksoftly, blunderbuss2, ho2cultcha!!! Bravo!
i think i've finally solved this mystery! this poster was made by someone going by the name of 'Hart-Kaiser' for a 1915 periodical called 'Modern Art Collector' which was produced by the Society for Modern Art in New York City. i couldn't find much info at all about the magazine or the society, so i'm still very curious. anyone know anything about 'Hart-Kaiser'? or the magazine or society?
Hi, ho2cultcha! So good to see this beautiful work again, and to know that you are closing in on the 'suspect'. I couldn't search long at all, and can't go to library. However, a few links that might help.
http://addisonrowe.com/Gallery_Artists/Winold_Reiss/index.html
http://americanart.si.edu/research/tools/art/prints/
Also, would consult the following work if I were you:
"Who Was Who in American Art"
Compiled From the Original Thirty-four Volumes of American Art Annual--Who's Who in Art, Biographies of American Artists Active From 1898-1947
Falk, Peter H.
Happy hunting to you, sir! Best wishes, miKKo : )
thank you very much Mikko! i'll check out your links when i get a moment.
got to fly in one ...cool pic
that's really cool Windwalker. is that how you got your handle?
lol ...no I just snached the name out of the wind .....smiling
this poster is from 1915 and included in Modern Art Collector magazine, which was founded and run by Winold Reiss. the poster is an example of the kind of new and modern advertising posters being used in Germany and Switzerland. 1915 is very early for an aviation poster, particularly one w/ women pilots! and these vibrant colors!!