Posted 13 years ago
Londonloet…
(47 items)
I've been meaning to post this ever since I saw Greatsnowyowl's lovely Harrach piece - http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/58191-harrach-acid-cut-back-acb-green-to-cle
It gave me another clue to this piece, which I had already tentatively thought might be Harrach - not least as there is a piece in the same acid cut back technique with the same flowers, the same gilding and a similar colour scheme on page 66 of Truitt I attributed to Harrach.
I don't know a lot about Harrach however - even less than I know about other makers! This is a little different in that you will notice the iridescence over the cut back sections, and it is amethyst throughout rather than cut back to clear. There are no maker's marks anywhere that I can find save that there is a hand-painted gold 13 on the polished pontil mark on the base, along with lots of age-related wear. I assume this is merely the gilder's mark. All views and corrections gratefully received, therefore!
It is a monumental piece. It does not sound that big when I say it is 7 3/4" tall - but the last photo shows it with a piece in the same shape that is 4" tall, to show what I mean.
The alliums in the background are for Scandinavian-pieces.
Isn't it just! I thought the other piece might be Kralik, but I didn't like to say, so it's encouraging that your view accords with mine. The shapes are extraordinarily similar - differences are: (1) the twists are more pronounced in the smaller piece; and (2) the base of the smaller piece is the same as the body, save for the ground and polished pontil mark, whereas the larger piece has a flat ground and polished base around the ground and polished pontil.
BEAUTIFUL!!
Scott
Mmmm... it looks to me you have both a huge collection and a good eye for glass ;)
Both Legras and Harrach have been documented to this style of work. I've seen this piece signed as St Denis/Legras before but Deb Truitt is also very solid at actually documenting things before attributing them and this style was said by her to have been made by harrach. (in the bohemian glass book)
in another very similar style of glass, it's been documented thru sales records and sales pages that Legras bought from Harrach. So perhaps this purple glass is another case of that. The cover of the new Legras book has a piece in this shape but different color and a different acid cut back design. I have also seen pieces just like this marked with a st denis mark.
Shape alone with no other reference is not a reliable method to be used for attribution but it's a very easy trap to fall into.
So often when you get things together on a table that looked a lot alike in photos (for decor or shape or both) you see a lot of difference when you hold them side by side.
my current theory on these is that if they're marked they're Mt joye/st denis if they're not marked they are Harrach :) But everyone wants to lump them together as the french maker so what are you going to do? These purple ones do come in the same shapes as the light green ones that are actually documented to be both.
Thank you Scott for the comment, and the love.
Thank you Austro - a lovely compliment, which has added meaning coming from a collector with such wonderfully good taste. The collection is not huge though, truly, it's not - it's really quite modest, honestly (my husband might see this!)
Thank you AmberRose, inky and Vetraio50, for the loves.
the "style" that Deb Truitt says is Harrach is an acid cut back, purple with gilded flowers. it looks just like this. if you have her first bohemian glass book look in the Harrach section. Although the exact same pieces have been also found with Legras/st denis/mont joye marks.
the other style that is documented to be harrach with depository pics and record book entries, But also can be found in early legras/MJ/SD catalog pages and marked as such is this styling.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8016960
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8290780
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10740591_mont-joye-green-glass-and-gilt-painted-vase
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/558932
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9989434
etc,
If you want more detailed information on this you should ask Brian S as it's his documentation.
Greatsnowyowl, thank you for the information. I know less than zero about French glass, but interestingly this piece did come from France. Further, both Mont Joye and St Denis were mentioned in the listing. There really are absolutely no identifying marks anywhere, however, and my tendency was, and is, to trust Truitt more than an eBay listing! Especially given the desire to attribute to better known, allegedly more valuable French houses.
I think I owe an apology to both Greatsnowyowl and Obscurities for any confusion I may have created over shapes. I was not suggesting the two pieces must be the same maker as they are the same shape. I merely wanted to show how large the purple piece really is, which I felt was achieved by setting it side by side with the other piece of basically the same shape. I felt it was an amusing contrast!
As a raw beginner at this glass business, I find it interesting, as I think Obscurities was trying to show me, that the picture shows a clear example of two different houses using basically the same shape, when that shape is beyond the generic or basic vase shape - even if when analysed the shape is pretty much that generic shape with a twist in the middle. My comments on the differences between the two were focused on the nuances in the shape - the differences between the glass and the decor on the two pieces are too numerous to re-count. I suspect that Greatsnowyowl was merely giving me a timely reminder of a very similar point, and something that these two pieces amply illustrate - blind reference to shape without considering the pieces as a whole can easily mislead. Another valuable lesson for a beginner - and one that, as Greatsnowyowl pointed out, is hammered home by actually handling the two pieces.
So, what I am trying to say, very long-windedly, is thank you both!
My comments about shape was meant to be a reminder in general. :) Not saying that anyone had made that jump here, just a reminder in general, because so often people do go there.. it is an easy trap to fall into. (in general) I think we've all done it. :)
Thank you Greatsnowyowl for the additional info - your last post arrived while I was composing my last lot of meandering musings. It looks like I need to get my hands on that Legras book and send Brian S a begging email! I feel a trip to the V&A coming on ...
I think it's kind of a point of academic interest more than anything else if it's Harrach or Legras. they're gorgeous either way and I don't think it changes the value an iota.
Oh and now you've done it again , Great Snowy One - posted while I was contemplating!
I took it as a gentle reminder, nothing more - and a welcome one at that :) If I can learn from others and by doing so avoid the odd mistake, then I will be a man, I mean glass collector - or something like that. Kipling would turn in his grave ....
And again! You're posting faster than I can think, GSO! Still, I agree - although I do like a good academic debate. Plus, the absence of a signature means I paid a lot less than the estimates on those other pieces ! Long live the unattributed is what I say - it lets me own pieces I could not afford if they were signed, and gives me the fun of trying to track them down.
I cannot but admire your interest and willing to learn in this complicated field of art glass... Holmegaard is so much easier ;) ¡Un abrazo!
¡Muchas gracias, Austrohungaro! ¡Saludos cordiales!
And thank you, Bratjdd.
Thank you, Scandi! Nice to have you back with us.
I might post the little orange one with something else in that colour when I get a minute, as I love it too! The purple one, though, is great - even better in real life, but the natural light does show something of the finish.
Thank you! And despite all my complaining, they are actually still going, despite the weather.
I think so, but I'm not great on alliums! Clematis is about as much as I can manage.
And climbing roses do look so good with clematis growing through them ; )
Thank you LoetzDance and Bellin68!
Thank you Slave-to-glass. Great name, btw - pretty much applies to us all!
Sorry coming to this debate late.
Yes pieces like this are in the Legras original book and I've had them signed with various correct Legras signatures.
Possibly the purple version (like this) but definitelly the green versions (like Snowy's links) were made by Harrach. In the Depository at Harrach Factory I was lucky enough to handle a pale green version and it's indistinguishable from the 'Legras' signed examples that I've had. Not similar -Identical. They also had there maybe 10 more recognisable 'legras' shapes in the pale green. Oddly only the pale green.
Maybe we'll never find the complete explanation for this, but I suspect Harrach made much if not all of the pale green ones for Legras. Possibly the purple too.
I suspect Harrach made a lot of things for a lot of people!
Thanks Mike - I suspect you're right. I asked Brian S and he was sure it was Harrach.
I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a green one - they are really beautiful.
Thank you, Al!
The purple piece is Mt Joye.
Thanks, Mustangtony and dlfd911.
Hello, for me this vase was made by Legras' factory of Saint-Denis, the colours and the style are similar than Legras and this serie is proved as a Legras in the Legras' book