Posted 12 years ago
Rosemarie
(10 items)
This platter is oval and just under 13". I believe it is "blue flow" but I'm new to a lot of this. It has a fleur de lis stamp that reads "La Francaise semi vitreous AB." If you can see the ruler, at just about 9" on the top edge it has a chip that I think was there before it was glazed. There's no sign that it was repaired after the chip. If you cannot see the chip as the platter is finished very nicely I will try to add another picture. Can anyone help me put a date on this platter? Also, can you confirm that it is blue flow and perhaps identify the maker? Many thanks.
Certainly looks like flow blue to me. Though I like flow blue, it's not something I collect so I'm not that familiar with many of the patterns. This mark is from a US company. East Liverpool, Ohio was where the company began, then moved to Sebring, Ohio. This back stamp was used between 1898 when the company that produced it opened and 1932 when they shut down. This link might answer some of your questions and get you started on possibly finding this particular pattern. If I ever see it, I'll let you know. Lovely piece!
http://www.sebringohiohistoricalsociety.org/FrenchChina.html
I followed your link and found it very helpful. Thank you. I'd like to find a picture of the mark. If you have any insight there I would appreciate it.
Sorry for the horribly long link I had to post but it's the best I could do. This is taken from page #83 in the book "Decorative American Pottery & Whiteware: Identification and Value Guide By Jeanie Klamm Wilby"
There is a picture of the mark here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=fuDQdRpw998C&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=porcelain+mark+la+francaise+semi+vitreous&source=bl&ots=326Lo2QPkj&sig=l4_4T3pMXrV-wz0AJVUe_q-3azk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sT3nT8PoDunp6QGGg7zfDg&ved=0CGsQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=porcelain%20mark%20la%20francaise%20semi%20vitreous&f=false
Wow! Chinablue, you are good! Thanks!
Chinablue - I don't see any flow blue patterns without a design. What do you make of that?
I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean :-\ There are a pieces of flow blue pieces that only have the cobalt along the edge without it being a true pattern such as blue willow, florals or pastoral scenes. Sometimes the cobalt oxide transfers flowed to such an extent that the pattern was more or less lost due to the blurring. If they were too blurred , they were sometimes considered rejects. As I said earlier, flow blue is not something I'm that familiar with so perhaps someone else can answer exactly what question you have as to the pattern you have.
I just haven't seen any flow blue pieces that have only cobalt along the edge. Also, the mark says "La Francaise semi vitreous A5." I've seen A4 but no A5. Is it safe to assume that A5 is the pattern (or in this case the pattern that this platter was intended to be if it is a reject)?
To the best of my knowledge, it wouldn't be stamped as a reject.. at least not under the glaze. The amount of pattern 'flow' of the cobalt isn't really known until afterward. It would be more likely to have had complete gold accent loss, perhaps worn away by time and use. Here are some samples of a couple marked A5 like yours WITH the gold trim.
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1880-la-francaise-flow-blue-gravy-153235201
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/french-flow-blue-la-francaise-platter-ca-1900
Do you think that the gold could wear away so completely that there's no residue at all? While the dish shows signs of wear, there's no indication that there was ever gold on it. And I have every reason to believe it was never used since dishwashers were in existence. (It belonged to my mother's aunt who passed away in the 1960's and was never used since then.)
Yes, I do. I've seen it happen with the more frequently used pieces and improperly washed pieces. You have to figure a platter was probably used to serve foods that may well have become stuck on and needed to be soaked or scrubbed. Really hot water, abrasive or harsh chemicals additives to detergents in years past and the acids in foods can wreak havoc with metal overlays as can certain storage practices.
Do you think that diminishes its' value?
And then we get into the value/worth conundrum. Very gray area that every collector wrestles with at some point. *LOL* That is something only you will be able to decide. Do you value it less because it has no longer has gold on it?? Does an old family piece handed down by your great aunt mean less to you because it has lost a it's youthful luster? Now if you're merely looking to sell it and want to put a monetary worth on it, that's different. Without any emotional attachment or investment in the item, it will most likely will be worth less monetarily to anyone that collects flow blue because of the gold loss and the chip you mentioned in your original post. But nothing is worth more, or less than someone is willing to pay for it. I'm not an appraiser and can't tell you how much it's worth. Only you can know the value. If you need a monetary worth, like an auction price of this piece, that is something someone else will have to provide. I'm glad I was able to help you with your other questions. Plus I learned a lot I didn't know before from researching this. :-)
Thank you for all your help. My questions are more for a determination of what to keep and what to find a good home for. Unfortunately, I don't have room for everything. My mom recently had a garage sale and I took a lot of things I like because I didn't want to see them sold to someone who didn't really value them (or who wanted to buy for $1 and then resell). Now the conundrum I'm faced with is where to put everything. That's why I love this sight. I get a sense of what collectors really value which is, of course, very subjective. While I didn't collect flow blue before this I also have learned a tremendous amount and as a result become more attached to these items that have been in my family for so long. Now I have to decide if the few pieces I have are enough to start a collection or would be better with someone who has an established collection. (My mom has a lot of antiques and I already have the beginning of multiple collections - to my husband's dismay.
:-) I completely understand. I've been through the same thing with being the only member of my extended family that's left. There are things I kept for purely sentimental reasons and some I let go because they actually were worth more monetarily than their sentimental value to me.. at least at the time. It's never easy when it comes to deciding these things. Some decisions have been easy to live with and some, I admit I will regret until my final days. As for how many items you need to start a collection.. I say one piece you love! *LOL*
I'm glad I could help and honestly enjoy 'the hunt' for information. I learn a lot in the process and I like helping others who, like me want to know more about what they have. Luckily for me, my husband is an avid collector and understands my obsessions. It's been fun researching this with you.