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Posted 12 years ago
dhumphrey12
(31 items)
This sword was passed on to me, and would like help to identifying
it I have been told it could be American or German. I cannot find any marks. Any help will be appreciated
Thank You
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It looks like a M1850 foot officers sword. Usually these come with a leather scabbard.
Check at the blade end near the hilt area (grip)-- that is where they are usually marked.
scott
I agree that it appears to be a US Model 1850 Foot officer's word, and it's not unusual if there is no maker mark. In the Civil War era, many of these words were manufactured in Europe - mainly Germany - and imported into the United States. Many had the symbol of the manufacturer or name of the importer, others did not. Although an unmarked blade is less interesting to many collectors, it's still a desireable sword.
The Model 1850 foot officer's sword was a direct copy of the French Foot Officer's sword then in use, so it could also be a French 1845 pattern Infantry Officer's Sword - But I think it's more likely American. These were used from 1850, all through the Civil War, and up until about 1872.
Don't let the kids play with it! Get an expert to look at it & don't sell it to him when he says it is worth $100. The pics aren't very clear, but it appears to be an unstopped fuller/blood gutter at the grip end & that is a strong sign of being Confederate. Also the rose pattern in the guard is common among C.S. swords. If the handguard shows some roughness in the casting. The wire wrapping the grip on C.S. is often single iron or brass. The Confederates had a severe shortage of cured leather & were reduced to using cotton for harnesses so the iron scabbard is not an oddity at all.
I sold 1 with your pattern that was made by Haiman & Bro. of Columbus, GA. Yours also could be a Kraft, Goldschmidt, & Kraft of Columbia, SC or a number of others.
U.S. made swords were almost (if not always) marked. Most foreign made swords did not adapt the American pattern where the C.S. did.
Don't get swindled, please.
I've done a little more looking around & that unstopped fuller still tells me, C.S. & all U.S. 1850's had leather scabbards so I still suspect Confederate which could put the value in the $K's. Can you get documentation on it's history since Confederate swords etc. are often faked.
I hope you are right, blunderbuss, because my Model 1850 Foot Officer's sword has the exact same fuller pattern, identical rose pattern, and is unmarked. I also have unmarked examples of a model 1840 Cavalry Saber and an 1840 Light Artillery Saber.
Also, the model 1850 foot officer sword was a copy of the French period sword of the same type, and the first US Federal contracts for these swords in this pattern went to Schnitzler & Kirschbaum of Solinen. I have also seen this pattern sword made by Paul Luneschloss. Although there were plenty on non-regulation swords imported during the war, there were plenty of American pattern swords coming in too.
Oh, and dhumphrey, one thing I fully agree with blunderbuss on is that that you should not part with this sword too quickly or cheaply. This sword has value.
Wow, Ton of information. THANKS ALL!!! This is why I come here. I did have a few guys look at it
and they tried to offer me $200.00. Who do you trust anymore? Does anyone have a guess of its value. I think in the end it will wind up over my fireplace, if it was a CS sword what an honor to have such a treasure.
Good morning - I was doing my morning browse of e-Bay with my morning coffee, and found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Civil-War-Model-1850-Foot-Officers-Sword-with-Steel-Scabbard-/110919379331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d34f6983
As you can see, it has the unstopped fuller, rose pattern and steel scabbard that yours has. This one is marked Klingenthal (a French manufacturer) on the spine - another place to look for the maker's mark. Klingenthal did not export swords to Union dealers, so the sword on eBay may have been intended for French use as the Model 1845, and I would have listed it as such. Since yours is unmarked, I'm still betting yours was intended for the American market.
I notice the seller isn't getting any bids on the sword, but I'm thinking it's because of the French manufacture and the fact that he has a feedback score of "2".
er, I meant Union forces, not Union dealers.