Three Ironstone Nesting Platters...breathtaking green flowers. Is this Limoges? Unmarked | ||
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Posted 12 years ago
gingerakes…
(10 items)
I found these three platters together for what I consider to be a steal deal, but they are totally unmarked except for a few blue dots on bottom? I haven't a clue it they are English, German, etc
The embossing is marvelous...
There is one chip which reveals that under the glaze is dark brown...does that seem right for ironstone?
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Btw, there is gold trim on the end, so that is what you see in the photos, it is not the chip of which I mentioned :)
These are really elegant. They sit well together, stack properly and are well designed. No marks indicate 'early', I think. The staining within the chip is the grime of time. Maybe someone can tell you the name of the flower in the pattern, that may lead on to a name of the set. Maybe a photo of the blue dots may help someone to recognize the set. Are they briar roses?
Actually, I think they may be daisy flowers...I should post a closer picture of the flowers, and will in a bit...as well as a photo of the back (you are right...I should have known better and done so in the first place, ha).
In one of my pottery mark books I did find a mark for Caughley that is simply a blue dot or squiggle (page 60 of Lage's Pictorial Guide to Pottery & Porcelain Marks), however, I still have been unable to find a Caughley in this pattern?
Thanks for replying, and I will post those photos soon...
Nevermind...I just "edited" the original photos? There is now a close up of the flowers, and two photos of different random? marks on back of two of the platters.
Thanks for any help!
Meakin??
Sorry, the resolution on this laptop is very poor. I can't see your hallmarks.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5652747_identify-old-ironstone.html
Ha, thanks...but that's the problem...I don't think they're really hallmarks, ugh!
You know, I went to the link you provided, and it mentioned Thepotteries.org....
And I'm finding out that actually a good bit of the OLD stuff with "signed", so that may indeed be a signature, but I don't know how in the world I'm going to ever decipher it??
Hi, gingerakesler! This is going to be a long, tough search I fear. I just looked for this pattern again, and did not find it. RE Caughley mark that consists of a dot and a squiggle - yes, there is such a mark, but I cannot see your 'non-dot' mark well enough to have any indication of what it is. You might take it to someone who is very good at taking photos and enhancing them and see if they can capture a good image. You might try to find a nineteenth century (?) website that specializes in green transferware. Because this pattern is so similar to others of the period, you might have to find the maker of this platter by finding the shape first. I looked through quite a few antique teal/green transferware ironstone platters, and this is the only one I've seen thus far that is molded like this and has an edge somewhat like a ruffle, somewhat like a crimp....These are gorgeous platters!!
Thank you so much for looking into them...I know, they are truly truly marvelous...you should see them in person! I'm beginning to wonder if they're not newer than I was thinking? Like maybe Homer Laughlin? But, I just can't convince myself when I look at them...they have to be old. The embossing around the edges throws me off every time I decide to research them again...after putting them away in frustration for a while ;)
I sent a photo of them into replacements.com, and they immediately replied that they could not help me...ha, I had prolly used up all my "help mes".
Thanks again for helping and the leads.
You're very welcome! I think that they are probably very old - nineteenth century. I saw quite a few very similar patterns in this same teal green, and they were identified only as "antique", "antique nineteenth century", or/and "antique English". So Replacements might not have a clue as to who made these either. : )Best wishes!
You know what...I think these are Limoges...
Hi! Well, if they're not ironstone, they might be Limoges. But I don't remember ever seeing Limoges ironstone before. However, that's the kind of thinking that's going to solve this problem - inspired hypotheses that you test for truth value. : D
Hi, gingerakesler. I must apologize. I see evidence of Limoges 'ironstone' wares on ebay. Heretofore, I had only seen Limoges porcelain. Perhaps you could look for a Limoges identification service that treats Limoges ironstone and not just Limoges porcelain.
Continuing on your earlier hypothesis, why don't you ask The Potteries Museum in the UK whether or not they can ID the maker and pattern name of your trays? Follows below a link to their inquiry form. Perhaps you could get a better picture of the marks for them.
http://www.stokemuseums.org.uk/collections/enquiry_service
Thanks again! I clicked on the link, and read where it says you may email them questions, but see no email? I'll keep reading until I find one though, for sure! I'll let you know what they tell me!
Hi, gingerakesler! You're most welcome!
The form access might not work on your ipad, so here's the email address for inquiries: arts@stoke.gov.uk
BTW, chinablue is a very keen china enthusiast. She's been away for a while, but I saw her active this morning, and requested that she weigh in on this if she's time to do so. She's much more knowledgeable than I. Best wishes for success! : )
Thanks a ton, really :)
Hello miKKo! ~waving at you up there~ Good to see you. *S* We'll have to chat on one of my posts and get up to date with each other!
I love the form of these. It's a pretty good chance that the maker, responsible for the embossing and form are different from the designer of the floral pattern. Ginger, I was just looking at these pieces and at first glance, the second picture looks like it wants to be a name..(I downloaded it and worked on it a bit) either starting with a K, N or an H... but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. Can you give us a little more information about them? What size are these platters? Do they seem heavier or lighter than they appear to be when you hold them? Can you see light through them, and if so how well? And I can't tell from the photos, but I'm guessing that they aren't painted but rather transfers. As for being more knowledgeable than miKKo, she tends to sale herself quite short! She was able to track down an ID for a chocolate pot that had baffled me for YEARS. Don't let her fool you. *S* Now that the days are shorter and the weather is starting to turn chilly, I hope to be on a little more often. I look forward to tracking this down. I love a puzzle, especially a pretty one!
Hello! So pleased that this very well thought of china expert is going to help!!! Yeah!!!
Ok, yes...I can answer all those questions (and prolly should have listed much of the info to begin with, but oh well)
1. They are extremely heavy.
2. They are not transparent...this is to say, when I hold them individually up toward the sun, I cannot see my hand waving on the other side.
3. Largest platter measures approx: 17-3/4" x 13"
Medium platter measures approx: 15-3/4" x 11-1/2"
Smallest platter measures approx: 13-7/8" x 10-1/4"
4. It is a green transfer, and there is a little remaining gold trim on the rim embossing. Also, there are dark blue (?) spots on the backs.
5. I too see a "A" or K" and maybe a "y"?
Greetings, chinablue! We missed you and Jimbo! Scandinavian Treasures and I were talking about you just a day or two ago, I think. So glad you're back, and I trust that Jimbo is patched up nicely now. Thank you for coming to the rescue here! I was out of my league. Ginger, chinablue is too modest. You will see what I mean shortly. : ) Good night, all!
*S* miKKo, he's doing great and seems to me not TOO much the worse for wear. Please tell Scandi hello for me.
Now onto the search! Thanks for the extra information, gingerakesler. First off, ironstone is NOT my forté I'm sorry to say. But I do love researching puzzling items. I think that perhaps the first thing we can focus on is the shape and embossing of the platters since that seems to be what you notice first. We can try searching images of platters and see if we can find some with the same form. I think with them being so distinctive, that would narrow the search quickest. What do you all think?? So many patterns are SO similar that they can be harder to pinpoint, at least for me. You mention that there is some gilding.. so that makes me think that most has been worn away. That often points to older pieces.
In the photos, the pieces appear to be more of a cool white, and that 'usually' points you in the direction of English pieces, while American pieces tend to a warmer white. But computer screens lie, so you can best make the call on that. Well, that's all I can come up with for now. I'm off to search images for similar form and embossing! Hopefully we can get some of the other china lovers in here working on this. We ID'd that "Feathered Hat" platter, we can do this *LOL* Hopefully Bellin will stop by too.
Yes, they are definately bright white, no cream to them. The shape that you mention is why I started to notice the Limoges pieces really suited the same shape as mine. Time and time again, but the decorating does not indicate typical Limoges still to me. Mine are much too...well green green and more green :)
I know they made blanks, perhaps this was sent somewhere else to decorate? But that is my brick wall, from there, without a mark, I don't know where to turn?
Mikkochristmas & chinablue...would y'all mind looking at the pottery bowl I have post? It's a question about a mark (can you believe I actually have a "marked" question :)
I thought maybe van briggle, but I don't think so anymore?
Anyway, just if you ever have the time :)
Message to chinablue from Scandinavian_Pieces! Scandi thanks you very much for your very kind words and remembrance, and sends you in return her warm regards and best wishes! : )
Well, I think after nearly a year I've figured it out??
It's Pitcairns Turnstall England, though I'm still puzzled as to why it is unmarked??
Still no id on these...