Posted 12 years ago
milousmc
(3 items)
FIRST :
LET me correct a misconception concerning IVORY'S and Specifically ELEPHANT IVORY; IT IS LEGAL to own, possess,sell,trade and buy ELEPHANT IVORY IN AMERICA ! CALIFORNIA has STATE laws which now PROHIBIT the purchas sale or tranportation of any ivory item no matter how legal it is . THEY enforce it through their State Parks and Wild life system .Though not very effectively it is the law in that state . SO before conducting business with regards to the ivorys please call and get a written information letter from the WILD LIFE DEPT of CALIFORNIA . Donot rely on a phone call as most of the officers hardly realize there is a law like that and could give you
mistaken information.
, Apparently the social class in SAN FRANSISCO JUSt keep their collections private ..
THE rest of America still trades in Ivory as long as they donot import or exprot or buy illegally. there are exceptions and forms which the US CUSTOMS AND US FISH AND WILD LIFE HAVE that will allow certian imports and exports .
UNDER International Treaty it is illegal to Export or Import any new Ivory with several exceptions .Religious or research specifically. There are times which by prior arrangement with the U.S. CUSTOMS international trade can be accomplished .
THE MAIN Treaty concerning endangered animals,plants and goods that applies to IVORY is :
CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora), also known as the Washington Convention) is a multilateral treaty, drafted as a result of a resolution adopted in 1963 at a meeting of members of the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). The convention was opened for signature in 1973, and CITES entered into force on 1 July 1975. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten the survival of the species in the wild, and it accords varying degrees of protection to more than 34,000 species of animals and plants. In order to ensure that the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) was not violated, the Secretariat of GATT was consulted during the drafting process.[2]
I get chills when I hear someone has given their collection to a non profit Organization to destroy 50 to 100 yr old legal IVORY to help protect the modern elephant it only makes the Ivory more scre and those who want it look for illegal ways to get it , protect the living elephants with judicus use of GAME WWATDENS PRISION TIME and rewards to the locals who turn in those poachers!
1. ivory taken before the treaty is legalIf it has providence it is legal if you have areceipt it is legal and as long as it is not still greasy from just being taken off an elephant it is legal ( Ivory retains a greasy feel for many years but Ivory tusk are especially slick (GREEN)
2. one organization got people to contribute their collections in 2009 to help African Elephants in KENYA that NON PROFIT made
$17.3 million in 3 days re selling those items to collector who knew that IVORY WAS LEGAL!!!
Of the 17 million, a substantial , ( large LEGAL portion went to the directors,E-BXY President and Friends for operation of the non Profit) then the balance was sent to a non profit in Africa(directors were the same as the American NON profit) where the pie to help the Animals became even less .. Roughly 11% of the money actually went into any land management or to capture poachers. THE funny part is that ELEPHANTS donot live in only one Country and the scope of their travels in a 2 year span could take them to 6 country's 4 of which donot have the funds or manpower to control poaching
NOTE I HAVE HAD NO DENYLS FROM ANY OF THOSE INVOLVED in $ years of posting the same complaint nor have their attornies contacted me . SAYS something about the operation....
I have a collection of Ivory which I started over 40 years ago.
25 hand carved Chess Sets from China, JAPAN and other South EAST ASIA countries.I have carvings from 11 African NATIONS and India
The total value of all items on todays market is just over $1,233721.00
I have nothing which was purchased illegally most items were crafted before 1965.
For those who think OWNERS of these beautiful pieces of art should dispose of them . ,PLEASE think of this .FROM early European and Egyptian times the scraps left after carving Ivory were burned int coal ash and then mixed with oils and liquidizers to make something called "ARTIST IVORY BLACK OIL PAINT "Artist have used this dense and shiny black paint century's . By the extrapolated thought process of the non profits . WE MUST destroy most of the worlds Greatest ART WORK because ivory is the main component of the product .
MANY of my items are less than 1/3 inch tall and a group carvings from JAPAN CALLED NETSUKE :
are miniature sculptures that were invented in 17th-century Japan to serve a practical function (the two Japanese characters ne+tsuke mean "root" and "to attach"). Traditional Japanese garments—robes called kosode and kimono—had no pockets; however, men who wore them needed a place to store their personal belongings, such as pipes, tobacco, money, seals, or medicines.
Their solution was to place such objects in containers (called sagemono) hung by cords from the robes' sashes (obi). The containers may have been pouches or small woven baskets, but the most popular were beautifully crafted boxes (inr?), which were held shut by ojime, which were sliding beads on cords. Whatever the form of the container, the fastener that secured the cord at the top of the sash was a carved, button-like toggle called a netsuke.
Netsuke, like the inr? and ojime, evolved over time from being strictly utilitarian into objects of great artistic merit and an expression of extraordinary craftsmanship. Such objects have a long history reflecting the important aspects of Japanese folklore and life. Netsuke production was most popular during the Edo period in Japan, around 1615-1868. Today, the art lives on, and some modern works can command high prices in the UK, Europe, the USA, Japan and elsewhere. Inexpensive yet faithful reproductions made of processed clays and some pulverized ivory are available in museums and souvenir shops.
I have worked for STATE local and Federal Agency's as well as Insurance Companies and dealers Placing values on purchases, losses and claims resulting from theft, fires and disappearance .
IF you are going to give away your Ivory or any item which has value .Give to your MUSEUM, School or You have an Auction and use those funds to do local charity work..
![[S11-2-19] Japanese Sword: Kaneyuki Katana in Shirasaya](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/B1UAAOSw5W5nMtOl/s-l225.jpg)
I will accept any questions concerning the above statements and If I can I will direct you to sites which can help you identify and classify your items,There are 5 ivorys including the Ivory billed bird and an additional section for mammoths which are not controlled by CITIES Treaty.
PLEASE NEVER BELIEVE ANYONE ABOUT THE FACTS CONCERNING LAWS which could effect your living standards ,and life style.: ALWAYS do your own research and get legal help and advice from those trained in that area.
if you have been illegally charged with something which you did not do. STAND up for your rights as AN AMERICAN
Well Put Milousme, Well Put !! I agree !!
Could you look at the pics I just posted and tell me a bit about my ivory statues. I inherited them, and can't find any info on them online. They are Kitagawa Ivory. Thanks
Cynthiabaker 5 Withregards to your Question about small ivory pieces and pricing . They vary depending on the location and the auction house or private seller in the USA and her territories.
Flordia has a large number of items for sale at various Auction houses many have good pricing but you must look around Ny City is usually more expensive as the larger Auction houses have delt with the 5 Ivory types for many years and their actual selling prices are normally 50 to 75 ^ higher than most other locations . midwest and north central states are the most reasonable .Texas. Houston, Dallas and Especially Austin seem to be getting progressivly more for their smaller carved items.
The ivory(elephant) has a value on smaller items based on several factors
1. Is it signed and by a known Japaneese artist
2. Is it a Nutskie piece and is it of an age over 80 to 100 years(those were real not made for the retail market
3. Does it have a proven providence(a verified list of its journeys through its inseption with names and locations if possible back to its carving)
4. is it a true miniture that is less than 1 inch in height and less than 3/4 inch in with width
5. Is it a snuff bottle or opium bottle (of ivory with a lid either screw on or push down) no cap or lid devalues by 50%
6. how is it colored white, off white, yellow, greenish, and is it cracked with surface cracks or deep cracks is surface smooth and can you see the overlapping vs or chevrons on any part ( indicating verified natural lines in the tusk) This is not always visible due to miniture size but in Nutskies or carvings over 2 inches usually the bottom or one side will have these lines
7. does the item portray a story or is it a group of various items of which you only might have one piece
8 Many of the more intricate and older Ivory chess sets are being broken up and sold a piece at at time under a glass protector . (NOT AS CHESS pieces)
Indian carved Ivory from the 1800s many times has the king and Queen on an elephant with in a covered canpey and even the pawns at times are hindu or budda gods very intricate a 2 1/2 in ch king from the 1880s is valued in excellent condition at over $400
larger pieces with the many goddesses of the south east asi culture go well over $1200 a 5 ft elephant tusk carved with the Japaneese 7 cities or as a huge boat with people and items can Run $500,000 to $4,000,000 or more
again condition, providence and market judge these prices.
8. have you been able to verify that it is not a simulant or ivory powder.
though I am not in favor of this method a hot needle can be pressed against the bottom if plastic it will smell like plastic burning if it is one of the real ivorys it will smell like your tooth when you are having it drilled for a filling , if it is a synthetic rock no effect will result nor will one result on real rock . you may also use ultraviolet light .
note many Ivory items start low but sell high or are no sale if prices to not go above the Sellers REserve
Finally here is a short list of places that have on line auctions which many times sell Ivory and most have a minium start bid and list the final selling price
sign up free at LIVE AUCTIONEEERS.COM
and most of these aucton houses will be in the listings just ask to be notified when items of interest Elephant ivory come avaiable for auction
Kenneth Hutter Auctions
WorldCrest Auctions, Inc
Western Asset Reserve
Kodner Galleries Inc.
Government Auction.com
herre is an example of a listing
LARGE CARVED IVORY ELEPHANT BRIDGE TUSK
Offered By Echoes Antiques & Auction Gallery, Inc.
DateMay 31 2014 02:00PM PT Start Price $400
Thank you and Hope this was of a help in your Quest to learn more about cost ,value and resale price
Ivory is a very limited and valuable resourse which is a art form in its self prices have gone from a few hundred aof the finest chess sets in 1950 to millions for the best ivory chess sets currently stiil togeather as a 32 piece complete set
I have worked for the Governamnt and various insurance and police agency over a 40 yr period and know the values have far exceeded any other natural substance. and Though the Elephand and other 4 ivory animals are on endangered or watch list from World Wild life Foundations you must remember the items currently in the USA are atleast 40 yrs old or in many cases over 100 yrs old and arlike anyother art form a precious cooooidy which should not be destroyed but preserved for future generations so they can understand that nothing is limitless and every thing on Earth has a finite amount .
(all of the master paintings in Europe and China for over 200 yrs use Ivory Black OIL paint in the art , ( A substande derived from the scrap pieces of carved ivory which are burned to charcole andhad oil baseadded then refined dries to thick vasoline like coinsistancy then used by the World master painters....Would you destroy all the paintings that used charcoled elephant ivory scraps as a black paion to stop slaughter of Elephands,,,,NO
We haveworld confrences on consewrvations and the many treaties includiong the CITIES which over 90 % of world governments support.
JUST donot buy IVORY that has greenish tint or that feels slick andgreasy. THAT is an Elephant tush which has been taken in the last 20 years and is illegal
Futher Question should be diredted to the US PARKS and WILD LIFE or to the AFRICAN/ INDIAN Elephant Conservation Group
USMC, Fraud Investigator, Insurance Adjuster,International Recovery and Investigations, GEMOLOGIST,Conversationist,and Former member of ORG Crime Task Force
My work and history as well as references can be view on Linkedin.com the professional network at milowilsoniii
Thanks for your interest in our natural resources and endangered animals
If you contribute to any wild life fund or protect the elephant or other ivory funds note you should lwasy verify the amopunt of your money percentage wise that goes to the actual protection of theanimals Our Government has detailed records of every AMERICAN NON PROFIT !!!
Another interesting point would be these miniatures are carved from Tagua every day and sold as ivory. Tagua nuts are the closest thing there is to ivory in the world and quite difficult to tell the difference. That is why the tree is called the ivory palm. They grow along the Amazon river and are exported by the ship loads to be carved and sold as ivory and technically by virtue of the name of the tree they are ivory.
your comments arevery accurate . At times I forget to put in everything and atothertimes .IT seems like no one cares or reads about things which matter in our world , I still read real books but thousands of young people nevr openone , the INternet is a vast knolwdge libery . However folks donot realize tht hard bound books will last if the solar flares get bad or our powerspplies dwindle, , Thanks again for your comments. THE use of shortand long wave Blue lights (ULTRAVIOLET do cover and catch alot of the other than animal like substutes. Yoou know ther is an ivory billed bird which is also endangered .and the bill is very ivory like and rare. again thanks for your support and for additional information which you have kindly posted
MILO WILSON< USMC
A lot of great information here!
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A further consideration regarding 'old ivory' (and the current laws/restrictions/etc involving sale, moving, and usage of such) which many folks (including legislative ones too, sadly) routinely overlook is the traditional usage of ivory in the construction of fine musical instruments. Keyboards (pianos, pipe organs) and decoration/buttons/etc for smaller mostly woodwind instruments like clarinets and saxophones and accordions, guitars to a degree, and yada yada.
In the pipe organ industry for instance, our major trade organization (yes, there is one, the American Institute of Organbuilders) in recent years has found itself in the position to need to consult/employ the services of various lawyer/lobbyist kinda people, to try to keep half of anybody's odd old church organs from suddenly being declared "illegal" -- even moreso to fend off potential legal issues for any of us that might want to rescue/restore/relocate historic old organs (or their parts) without being subject to accidental legal prosecution for doing what we all otherwise regularly do. Piano makers and restorers no doubt face the same challenges.
At the firm I am employed by now, we use specially harvested/polished cowbone for our new keyboards instead...its the closest/best feeling substitute for ivory keys. Also ridiculously expen$ive, but it's the best option we now have...