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Posted 12 years ago
Agram.m
(762 items)
Large very richly edited jewelry box without key completely modified so also around to scene. There are two compartiments. There are two marks for silver plated Zilpla90 and I believe to see a little fish or dolphin. It's in a very good condition. Do you have a time suggestion??
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Hi, Agram! Best wishes for a joyous 2013! : )
I don't find this exact mark. I do confirm that this is silver plate.
http://reviews.ebay.com/Dutch-silver-and-silverplate-marks?ugid=10000000006798423
I looked at Dutch figural hallmarks and found a dolphin, but it doesn't look like a close match. I'm sorry - I've never seen this mark before.
http://www.925-1000.com/Fnetherlands_Date_Code.html
Perhaps vetraio50 will have an idea. : )
I will look into it. I think I have seen this mark before. We now have some Dutch contribuors who may be able to help too: bazelmania, vlkma et co.
miKKoChristmas11 thanks for your explanation, comment and loving.
vetrai050 I look forward to your knowledge thanks in advance!
Hi Agram, Vetraio asked me if I can help.
This is definitely Dutch. ZIL is short fot Zilver (=silver), PLA is short for Plated.
90 is used to state that it is plated with a content on 90/1000 silver.
I hope you understand. The dolphin doesn't ring a bell.
hi agram -- have a tape measure with a similar relief from denmark -- supposed age is in the mid 1800s -- mine has no hallmarks just the "denmark" imprinted on the side
I have looked and foun a better picture of the mystery mark.
It can be seen on a Dutch mirror:
"ANTIQUE DUTCH SILVER HAND MIRROR ZILPLA90 ELABORATE VILLAGE SCENE"
It's on an auction site. Google and you'll see the mar again.
The other search I made was based on "zilpla".
I found a spoon with it's original box.
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-zilpla-90-silver-dutch-spoon-160694697
If you look at the box it seems that Zilpla is the name of the firm.
Or do I have that wrong?
Hi, vetraio! 'Zilpla' is an acronym that stands for 'Silver Plate'. "90" indicates that the silver content that effects the plate is produced by using 90 grammes of silver: one thousand grammes of base material. See the ebay link in comment no. 1. : )
Hi miKKo! I've seen those references.
But I have now found the spoon and box!
Check out the link in comment 8.
I've had a look on some auctions in Holland and they refer to these wears as Zilpla.
Sometimes with 90, sometimes without.
Zilpla 90 also appears on a Danish item on the net.
silver plated : verzilverd
I think the verb "to silver"' also has a Middle Dutch etymology.
Remember our conversation over the Gero90 creamer?
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/69663-silver-plated-gerofabriek-creamer
The 90 gives the indication of silverplate.
The Gero is short for Gerritsen & Co.
They produced two types of wares:
Gero vervaardigde haar producten in die tijd in twee kwaliteiten, te weten Gero-Zilver (verzilverd witmetaal) en Gero-Alpacca (gepolijst witmetaal), ook wel nieuw zilver genoemd.
Gero manufactured its products in two qualities, namely Gero-Zilver (silver plated white metal) and Gero-Alpacca (polished white metal), also known as new silver.
I just think this may not be as simple as the acronym idea.
Mind you, I can't find any mention of the firm "Zilpla" yet either.
Yet!
Just as an aside. Here is the reference to the new silver marks in the Netherlands through the "Waarborgholland" site:
http://www.hallmarking.com/hallmarking/marks-stamps/silver-marks
There is a firm called Dorgento that still makes these "Old Dutch" wares. Interestingly the firm's name is a combo of silver and gold.
It also describes itself as: Zilplabedrijven Dorgento or dorgento silverplate business.
Zilpla bedrijven.
They are the only ones on the net who use this term.
Check out Dorgento in google images and you'll see some similarities.
The timeline on this Old Dutch revival looks to be from the 1950's.
Bazelmania, thanks a lot for your extensive commentary. It has helped me to make a good assessment which kind of box and material this is.
vetrai050, how can I thank you enough for all your help! I find it so valuable that we have here on CW so much connoisseurs who want to share their knowledge with each other ! I hope I'll also will be able to help you with a question on this area.
MiKKoChristmas11, again thanks for all your help and information!
epson233 and PhilDavidAlexanderMorris thanks for loving.
No problem Agram, I'll hold you to it! I love your stuff! You have great taste!
vetrai050, thanks for the compliment, you are too kind!
Hi, vetraio! Great work!!! I thought that you’d be the man to unravel this mystery, and what a delight it is to read this account of your research and conclusions. Bravo!
I’m a bit confused, and want to make sure I've got it right, so please pardon a few questions.
Are you suggesting or holding that "ZILPLA" is an acronym that stands for "silver plated" but which acronym is used as a 'proprietary' name or label on silverplated goods made by the firm Dorgento, but which acronym is not used by any other silver plating firm? Are you suggesting that the proper Dutch term for silver plated by standard usage (not just etymology) is something else entirely? I.e., “verzilverd”? E.g. to use the GERO example, that "ZILPLA" is a proprietary or trade name for a something like silverplated white metal/or some specific kind of base metal that is silverplated? And that no one but Dorgento uses the term “ZILPLA” for this type of product? Or, could “ZILPLA” have been a term coined by Dorgento that subsequently entered into standard usage as a type of silverplated ware – e.g., perhaps for silver plating over a particular kind of base metal – and which term was used by other firms, as well?
Etymology of “Dorgento” very interesting!
Very glad to get some information on some of these ‘Old Dutch’ wares! Thanks very much for this grand account, vetraio!!! Please consider adding this information to the http://www.925-1000.com database. : )
In addition of the comment of miKKroChristmas 11 I add the following of Gero:
Last year it was 100 years ago (0ktober 21 1912) the Gero factory was established under the name First Dutch Factory of New Silver work previously under firm name M.J. Gerritsen & co., and is a concept that in The Netherlands become stands for virtue and quality.
During its existence, the Gero factory used large number of different alloys. The factory made her products in ' new-silver ' and they used also a white metal the so called Gero silver. Alpaca, of which spoons and forks were manufactured, is an alloy of copper, nickel and zinc and contained no silver at all. The big disadvantage was that this became a very fast patina and therefore they made a chorme layer over the alpaca. In this way started the Gromalca products.
In addition the Gero factory made objects of pewter called Gero-tin (Gero pewter).
Hi miKKo! It's the start of something, I suppose.
It's all of what you say. I'm putting it out there that Zilpla is or was a proprietary firm. There's little information on the net about them. What I've seen of Zilpla90 is all the same type of ware in the 'Old Dutch Rembrandt scene style'.
In English we see an acronym E.P.N.S. and know it's plate. With plated wares in other countries the information yet is still scant.
At the moment I'm looking for more comment and more input from others.
I see 90 on Dutch, German and Austrian metals and think 'plated'. I've also seen 60, 40, 20 as well.
http://www.925-1000.com/a_platenumbers.html
Gero90, Zilpla90, WMFPatent90,AKS90, WillnerPatent90 etc..
I think in this case we're seeing the creation of an urban myth.
Hi, Agram and vetraio!
I very much appreciated your comment no. 21, Agram! I had never before encountered the term ‘new silver’, and I had not known that there were any disadvantages to Alpacca silver. : )
Alpacca/Alpaca Silver (silver) is an excellent example of a trade name/trade mark/brand name that entered into common usage as a type label for a particular silver-free alloy that imitates silver. (Vetraio, I should have incorporated the term "common usage" in my earlier comment. I do realize that specific trade names/marks/brands/labels can be appropriated by many firms/persons and become common usage without a proper "standard usage" ever obtaining.) According to Dorothy Rainwater's 5th edition*, Alpacca, German Silver, and Nickel Silver are “synonymous trade names of an alloy” of nickel, copper and zinc (p. 304). (I prescind from distinguishing between trade names, trade marks, brand names, trade labels, firms, subsidiaries, divisions, lines, manufacturers, etc.)
I gleaned the following from an eBay guide by “cerchen” entitled “Alpacca Silver – What is it?: eBay Guides”. ** I do not vouch for the accuracy of cerchen’s statements, as presented in the second link below, I am merely summarizing them, as given in the second link below.
Cerchen states that in Germany, Austria, Middle and Eastern Europe, Mexico, Central America, and South America the term used for this alloy is Alpacca Silver, not Nickel Silver.
Cerchen follows with his account of the development of the alloy, and his account (or a version of his account – perhaps written in another language and translated into English) differs significantly from that given in Wikipedia.*** I prescind from the question of whether either of these accounts is accurate. I simply abstract from both accounts the following. Reportedly an 1823 contest resulted in a process to produce what we now know as Alpacca Silver, and that Berndorf AG, the manufacturer, is said to have “named the trademark brand ‘Alpacca’” (Wikipedia).
I suspect that getting a good handle on ZILPRA will require an extended search by a careful scholar(s), and I hope that when and if you are satisfied with the results, vetraio, you will consider posting your findings at least to a discussion forum associated with http://www.925-1000.com. Once again, I look forward to learning something from you that I could never discover on my own! Good show, sir!
* Encyclopedia of American Silver Manufacturers
** http://againwhatis.com/Silver-what-is-it/Alpacca-Silver-_--What-is-it%3F-%3A-eBay-Guides
*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver
Two notes. Vetraio, I see that in your comment no. 10 you used the term 'new silver' to refer to Gero's Alpacca. Secondly, my assessment of the sense of "90" correctly captures that 90 grams of silver were used in a silverplating process, but I didn't explain the process well...Well, enough of me.
miKKoChristmas11 and vetraio50 thanks a lot for your detailed and clear comments and explanations. If all collectors well though this kind of stories follow then we are become in a couple of years connoisseurs par excellence. Very instructive.
MrsAR8Jason thanks a lot for loving
Thank you very much, Agram, for your very kind comment! : )
miKKoChristmas11, you are welcome I only mention facts!