Posted 12 years ago
scottvez
(977 items)
I purchased the one on the left several months ago and posted it on CW. At the time, I thought the stopper was an "add on".
Recently, I purchased the one on the right with the same style stopper. It was amazingly priced at $15! I was really happy to add it and make a pair for display.
Now I am unsure of the stoppers. I have added some close ups of the stopper and would like some opinions on it. Was it originally made with or w/o the stopper?
Thanks.
Reproduction of these images is prohibited.
scott
Thanks czechman-- any thoughts on the stoppers?
scott
These don't appear to fit very well but It looks like they have identical construction to the glass.
Do they fit well?
These old jugs DID have stoppers and were meant to have stoppers. People assume they don't and shouldn't because so few are found with the jugs now. As far as these go.. finding two in separate places with the same style stopper with the same construction as what they are fitting into do make it appear that they belong with the piece.
Stoppers are original to the piece. I have the same pair with the same stoppers.
As far as Harrach...I had located a website that indicated Stevens and Williams but since that time the website has gone down and I have no other reference to that.
Thanks for looking and commenting owl-- I appreciate your information!
scott
Lovely!...:-)
Thanks for looking and commenting inky!
scott
I have posted the cruets with the same stoppers on my page and as you can see they are the same stoppers.
what do the bottoms of yours look like Scott? NJL example has a somewhat unfinished pontil. I had a toothpick with the tulip like yours and it had a neatly polished pontil?? At one point I knew the maker of these. Harrach sounds right but I don't remember why. (applied glass isn't something I major in) I know Stevens and Williams is also on the plate for these. From the little piece I had the quality was unmistakable.. it was like four layers and very precise. The stoppers look italian... It confuses me.. but that aside.. I do believe you are Correct with Harrach on these. The name of S and W are often thrown around with Harrach pieces because of a long tradition of calling bohemian glass English because of a lack of knowledge thru-out the 20th century on that company.
When I have more time I'll look thru my books. I am procrastinating today as it is. i have to package something up and get to the gym. LOL
I had these cruets Id'd as S and W but didn't save the website. The coloring with the lime green interior. As far as Italian, they made copies of these cruets in the 30s/40's, but their glass making procedures were different leaving a marbalized base as they mixed the colors which is not apparent well in the ones I listed, but would think his are probably same type of bottom. The Bohemians did similar styling as to the English and it does make identifying difficult. Doesn't Harrach mark a lot of their pieces and polish the pontils?
It is very typical for anything with applied flowers to be IDd as Stevens and Williams in antique store, through auction houses, and on some websites.
I am confident that these are czech and most likely Harrach.
scott
Harrach is very often not marked. sometimes they finished the pontils sometimes they didn't sometimes they kind of did and other times there are no pontils at all. :)
you also find a lot of fake S and W marks on glass but people believe it. I am not sure you can go off of something like marbling in the base to call otu the italian vs bohemian or english with these. Style of shape and other indicators can be used as well. Personally, I find the stoppers on these Very unvictorian.. I do question them. Especially if hte pontils are unfinished. the kind of quality that went into these would call for polished pontil scars.
These make me wish everyone lived within ten miles of each other so you could see them next to each other.. can you guys measure your pieces and post how big they are exactly?
I just looked at the stoppers closely again. They are NOT a great fit. One has been ground around the side and it seems to fit tight. The other is not ground and it sits a little higher in the piece. The stoppers do NOT fit on the other piece-- there is a fair variance in the neck size of each piece.
Additionally, these vary in height by about 1/4".
scott
Stoppers generally won't be interchangeable between pieces. What do the bases of your pieces look like. does the construction of the stopper seem to be the same as the piece. the glass matches.
The stopper glass is very close to the body of the pieces but not exact.
The bottom of each has a rough pontil. I have the bottom of one posted here:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/41142-harrach-art-glass-ewer-with-applied-flow
scott
The marbeling does give a clear indication of later Italian pieces, they mixed the glass together causing the marbeling which wasn't done during the Victorian times. It was the different glass process that made the marbeling. LOL on your description of marks and pontils on Harrach. I have just become really awakened to Bohemian glass since following this site a little better. So learning as much as possible. As far as height of mine, they are the same height, right at 9 1/2".
Gotta disagree with you on that. the base layers do show all together on the bases of many pieces. you especially get a marbling look when you have a cut and polished pontil. a number of Harrach pieces show that even when they don't have a pontil. it's a minor effect but it is there slightly.
The marbling you see in Italian glass vs earlier glass is in the actual side wall blend. the colors won't graduate smoothly whereas they do in the earlier pieces. And some italian pieces do not marble on the side walls. Sometimes they can be smooth. I'd use splotchy to describe it more than marbled though.
I wasn't refering to the pontil area, it is the base area that swirls or splotchy, I have seen it referred to as marbling effect. Either way, it is distinctly different then earlier pieces. The primary difference is in the construction of the glass. It is particularly noticeable in burmese glass but have seen these types of pieces with the same swirling effect that are Italian.
Thanks for looking petey!
scott
Very Nice set, honestly ive seen a lot of those on ebay and ive bid on a few but never won, lovely though congrats on 15$ thats a steal!
Thanks shawn-- bargains abound at shops AND on ebay!
scott
Thanks moonstone.
scott
Thanks pat!
scott