Thomas Webb Rock Crystal (style?) Cut Goblet Circa 1936 - 1949. Designer / Artist? | ||
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Posted 11 years ago
twentiethc
(23 items)
Thomas Webb Rock Crystal (style?) Cut Glass Goblet. Signed Webb, but no apparent artist / engraver signature. Circa 1936-1949. Does anyone out there have a listing of these patterns and who designed / engraved them? I am looking for an attribution if possible.
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I don't think this is rock crystal. the rock crystal is really thick. I don't think you're going to find it's any of hte big names either. that markis a later mark After the period when the big names were associated with engraving. I think it's just engraved Webb Crystal from the 1936-49 (the years that mark was used)
gorgeous gorgeous though
Greatsnowyowl, that's a good observation. I had considered the same thing, except that Bonhams and others have listed the same goblet as Rock Crystal, but no artist / designer attribution.
That isn't to say Bonham's is correct ... I was just hoping to find some documentation somewhere one way or the other. I think your point about the signature being from 1936 - 1949 is the best solid fact so far.
I'm not sure how Webb "qualifies" their lines as rock crystal or otherwise, but I have to agree the names I listed are more characteristic of the circa 1900 +/- time period.
Still searching for more facts :)
I've seen teh term rock crystal used more than once for regular crystal. I think some sellers use it without knowing what it is as a selling point.
it looks like by the time this was made, the triple cutting wasn't always done but the piece should be entirely polished in the cutting area and there are some grey cuts on this goblet. (at least that is what it appears to me, photographs and all.. )
http://www.brilliantglass.com/about_abcg/engraving_4.html
that is an interesting article on rock crystal
There is amazingly little information out there for how big a company webb was. there is more information on harrach in teh wild than I've seen for Webb or Stevens and williams. I think they have a ton of the information in museums in england but no good books devoted to either of those companies. I don't really understand why.
I totally agree .. .very difficult to find quality books on this subject matter. I once saw a small pamphlet type book on rock crystal, and before I could click the BUY button, someone beat me to it :(
Only one I have seen available, an it was an old publication ... WAY out of print.
Thanks as always for your insights.
well Hajamachs book does have a big chapter on Rock Crystal and many other types of English glass.. but I meant in particular General Webb and General Stevens adn williams with information in detail showing things like patterns and shapes.
If you don't have Hajamach's book I strongly recommend it.
I agree, what is called rock crystal is very rarely actually rock crystal. There is italian company Royal Crystal Rock for example, I believe there is nothing they ever produced what is made of rock crystal, but since the sticker on glasses or other items mention "rock" many believe it's rock crystal.
Your glass is amazing! But I don't believe it's rock crystal either. I think I see where the stem is connected to the base in pic 1, and rounded crystal clear surfaces would be very hard if possible to accomplish with cutting, that's why they usually are faceted.
When someone mentions "ROCK CRYSTAL" I immediately think of the Glass Pattern made by McKee Glass CO. of Jeannette, PA, introduced in 1904 and made until the early 1940's. If you look it up, you will see that it very closely resembles the cut pattern on your Goblet. I don't think they were thinking of Rock Crystal which is a natural stone. RER (BOB)
Rock Crystal from Webb and Stevens and williams was not a pattern. It is a very specific type of glass.
There seems to be some confusion here. To clarify.
Rock Crystal is a type of Quartz, a naturally occurring mineral, NOT glass.
It has been used to fashion items and has been "cut" for decorative effect but this is EXTREMELY rare as it has natural fault lines (often unseen) which can make the whole thing crack or split while cutting. This should be called "cut Rock Crystal".
"Rock Crystal" has also been used as a brand name for some Italian 24% lead cut crystal (glass). It is a brand name only with no meaning.
What we are discussing here is a style & technique of cut decoration, usually in high lead content crystal glass (up to 38%) which should be known as "Rock-Crystal-Cut". This style of cutting seeks to emulate the soft look of actual Rock Crystal (Quartz). It is also rare to find.
There has been debate over a clear definition of Rock-Crystal-Cut. Hajdamach's description is not entirely clear and open to interpretation. However once you get used to seeing "the look" you can spot it but even then you need to check all it's features to be sure. Here is an indisputable example. http://www.karaffensammler.at/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=6322
Your goblet is a very fine example of cut crystal but NOT rock-crystal-cut. As Greatsnowyowl points out the unpolished "grey cut" areas disqualify it immediately.
There are other criteria but to me the main one is that, the whole piece should be highly acid polished (perhaps done several times) so that all the sharp lines are softened and rounded, to give a very soft, glassy, glossy look to emulate (not copy exactly which is impossible) the look of real Rock Crystal (Quartz).
Wow Vetrissimo, thank you for the clarification. Really interesting and helpful.
20th, these are gorgeous.
Thanks; all are good points. It pleases me that others continue to find this thread and contribute.
I agree there's no question that these are not the type of Rock Crystal associated with the carving of natuarally ocurring Quartz crystals. Nor is there any possibility that these are the type of glass that McKee produced under the name Rock Crystal.
The original question was relating to a class or works, techniques, styles generally referred to in the Industry by the name Rock Crystal. Designers / engravers such as Keith Murray, Frederick Lonie, Charles Boynton, John Thomas Fereday, Joseph Palme, Bohm, Clyne Farqhuarson, William Fritsche and others were known to work in the style / technique of cutting / engraving.
In particular, the Thomas Webb company produced several works engraved / designed by William Fritsche and others. It is that association and the fact that these are signed Webb that triggered the question. I agree, mine are a bit later, and not quite of the quality typically associated with the rock crystal cut / engraved items of the designers mentioned above.
Unfortunately, there is rather limited documentation available (from what I have found) on these items.
Hi Twentiethc, I just came upon this old post of yours and was wondering if you might help me a bit. I just acquired a set of glasses that match the ones in your picture, although the WEBB brand engraving on the botton may reflect a different time of production. I am not familiar with Webb’s manufacture work, and acquired them on an online auction without identification, which I only detected after receiving the actual glasses. I collect crystal services, but focusing more on Baccarat and Saint Louis etched designs. Any information you may Kindle provide me (ir anyone else in here, of course) would be of great help and immensely appreciated. I thank you in advance. Marcelo