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SpiritBear's items655 of 8131856 Railroad Stock CertificateDelaware
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    Posted 9 years ago

    SpiritBear
    (813 items)

    I got up really early to volunteer at where I normally do, then drove out of town to go help out at the Grand Rapids Bottle Show.

    Arriving, I couldn't find much to do as it seemed to be going smoothly. A manager slapped a sticker on me with my name on it and I was set to go.

    I walked around and spotted an unmanned table, where I spotted this bottle.
    I picked it up, debated the authenticity of the label, left, came back, analysed it again and determined it to be an old label on an old bottle, albeit something still seemed off.

    I left again, and soon the doors opened. I went back to this table, talked the man down on it, and was the first non-dealer to buy a bottle after a man yelled, "Doors' open!"

    But I should have looked closer beyond just the printing, and remembered how they put labels on these early bottles.

    Another collector asked to see it and pointed out some things:

    1. The label is perfectly centered on the plate-mold, which most know as a "slug-plate" (incorrect term), and is also quite straight.
    Labels on old bottles were often just slapped on at any angle and without caring where to center it or where the seam was or anything.
    2. The label's printing doesn't reflect expected age of closure (I don't think he ever saw a bottle with this closure, either-- another reason I piked it up.)
    It looked a bit more modern, as in post-1900 when the bottle is certainly pre-1900.
    3. You could see residue of the glue periodically around the labels.
    That's a big sign of it not being original. The glue used was biodegradable and didn't leave a permanent film on the glass like newer glues do.

    I just liked the bottle and label and wanted it, but will hereafter pay closer attention as I who buys paper label bottles should know better.

    Research tells me that this bottle's closure is known as a Thatcher Closure, patented in 1883 and used till 1895 on the Eastern Seaboard of the US.

    Research also says that Featherston Products Co. was around in Portland, Oregon in 1914 and 1920 making their Loganberry Juice-- this is the label.

    So we have an early 1900s label on a late 1800s bottle, which doesn't add up.

    Either the bottle was bought by the company after its first uses and subsequently filled/distributed on the West Coast, or someone took an old set of labels and put them on an older bottle to fool people like me and probably the seller I bought from.

    Other signs to watch out for:
    1. If you have a very collectible bottle with pristine paper-label, like a 1930s Pepsi, do research. A lot are being faked and sold as real-- the more perfect the label, the more suspicious you should be.
    2. If the label tells you the ounces, CAREFULLY pour water into the bottle up to the neck's beginning and pour it into a measuring cup.
    Do they match up?
    3. If the bottle has white staining or dirt in it, or is beat up or scratched, yet the label looks pretty good, it's probably added in the last 20 years.

    Often bottles were stolen from other bottlers. If it says G. Norris on the glass but has a different label on it-- usually covering the embossing-- it was likely stolen from the other company. (Hence the This Bottle Not to Be Sold statement on many.)

    Many people add labels to make more money or to display the bottle better-- I add bails to bottles without (if they'd have taken one) that look original but aren't (such as one saying Muskegon Brewing Co. on a bottle for them.)
    But if I go to sell or trade, I take the bail off so the buyer does not think it has an original bail (usually a porcelain piece with rubber gasket or rubber piece clamped down to seal drink.)

    It's still a really need bottle with an old label, but I messed up.

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    Comments

    1. SpiritBear, 9 years ago
      Yeah, I speak a lot-- don't I? LOL.
    2. NevadaBlades, 9 years ago
      Never knew there was so much to a bottle! Always thought, you know, a bottle was just a bottle. I'm sure most people think the same about knives! Fascinating stuff, SpiritBear. {;>)
    3. SpiritBear, 9 years ago
      I know little on knives. But there are many kinds of steel, which can help determine the quality of a blade.
      I dug up an old knife once:
      http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/176732-dug-knife
    4. AnnaB AnnaB, 9 years ago
      It's still a beautiful bottle, and to get one like this with an original closure doesn't happen too often, i would imagine, so that's "Congrats!" in my book =)

      You can call it "I messed up" or you can call it "I learned a valuable lesson and shared it with my fellow collectors" ;) I do learn a lot from your posts, so, as i said in the past, the longer they are, the better LOL

      I have a bit of detective work to do of my own. I found a place which looks to be a mid-century dump, and had two hours of a "kid in a candy store" experience LOL Nothing prior to 1930s, but still a pretty good day: all in all, about 150 bottles and jars, many sodas which i don't know what they are- the aluminum cap is faded and paper label is gone =(( from small ones to 2-liter bottles, some are unopened with soda still in them! The best ones- cokes and pepsis with engravings and painted labels- were broken, of course! I looked some of them up for identification, but didn't see anything similar. Do you mind to take a look if i post them?
    5. NevadaBlades, 9 years ago
      Still got that old dug-up knife??? Would love to see it. , -)
    6. SpiritBear, 9 years ago
      True and true, Anna. I should look at the positives to it-- and I do like the bottle a lot. Label, too.
      Foil labels were popular back in the 1950s-1980s. You may find one still on a bottle in the ground. I did once, but I touched it and it fell apart!
      As for caps, if they're rusty- not faded too far to read, but rusted over-- keep them. This summer I will be experimenting with methods on how to remove rust safely and keep any remaining paint-- with Oxalic or Citric Acid. Cans, too.
      I don't often see glass 2-liters. It could, though, be dirty water leaking into them. Tell me how they taste, and we'll see if it's truly pop. :P

      I'm always happy to take a look at bottles. But there are a bazillion ACLS. Here's two you'll likely never her of again:
      https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Cr7P7OOZsQw/Vc0SzXVqrjI/AAAAAAAATG0/ygC8uT_u9ek/w535-h548-no/Muskegon%2BCollection%2B030.JPG

      One, from when I last looked, isn't even listed. Quite rare. I wish I could afford 'em!

      As for 'the best ones,' the best typically aren't the more common brands. More common is just easier to amass a good collection of-- it's a reason I started with Paul's Drinks, and there's one I will buy if the seller ever comes down on it as it's not common in the shade its in.
    7. SpiritBear, 9 years ago
      Nevada, it was in the link I posted with it. :P
    8. NevadaBlades, 9 years ago
      Thanks. Missed the link.

      Wow, would hate to nick myself on that blade!!!
    9. SpiritBear, 9 years ago
      I think that it would fall apart if you tried to cut anything with it. LOL.
    10. bottle-bud bottle-bud, 9 years ago
      I once purchased a bottle that had a paper label that indicated 12 fl. oz. I didn't even realize that is was on a quart bottle for nearly a near. All I knew is that it was a St. Louis bottle that displayed well. I will post a pic.
    11. SpiritBear, 9 years ago
      I usually notice all the little details. But things slip past us all.
      Original labels-- "new old stock"-- aren't hard to get in many cases. The labeled bottle can be. Incentive for putting labels on bottles.

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