Posted 8 years ago
peter16
(48 items)
Hello to all, could you please take a look at the images I have posted of a very very lovely wooden box I have acquired, it seems to be in a fruit wood or maybe rosewood? with many different inlaid materials, perhaps some Ivory and other black, and red wood and a number of marks, I am particularly interested in the Qianlong reign inlaid mark to the top of the box, inlaid in a black material edged in gold, I recognise most of the marks as the accepted mark of the Qianlong period, but I don't recognise the 5th character, can anyone offer me any information please.
There is also calligraphy to the inside of the lid of the box and a 6 character mark in gold to the base, all comments absolutely appreciated, thank you.
For your information the box is 12 inches long 8 inches wide and 3 inches high, with some lovely patina and some cracking of the veneer in many places
Such a wonderful and excellent box Peter.
If you are unable to get info here perhaps try the Facebook group Collecting Chinese Ceramics and Art.
They are a helpful and knowledgeable group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/185857384957780/
Thank you racer4four I agree, it is a very lovely piece it benefits from your interest, tell me please, do you have any comment to my question about character number 5 ? And best wishes over the water
Peter
Sorry Peter, I am not able to read the characters.
Thats fine, thank you very much for attempting to read them
Regards
Peter
I'm wondering if this is a box once owned by Qianlong emperor , it seems to work with the characters, especially including character five, if it is woo woo!!!!
I wish it was mine!!
Hello PostCardCollector thanks for your comment, I have arranged for an appraisal next friday, if you like I will keep you posted, I could easily be incorrect !! Lets wait and see
Peter
So I found out what it reads on both lid and base, here goes, it reads 'The Qing Emporer Qianlong' wow the appraisal at Bonhams went ok, they asked me to take it to their London office so they can take a look in the flesh, so fingers crossed it might be of some importance. Thanks everyone for your interest.
await more good news pete!
Aye fingers crossed, cheers Pete
Never went to Bonhams, London, I left the box in my camphor wood storage box and moved house (twice) consequently i hadn’t seen it for 3 years, just picked it back up yesterday, I think it’s grown more beautiful
Note: I saw another similar box sold in Hong Kong it was described as an Emperors document box !!!
I dealt with Bonham's office in Toronto for a small collection of antique snuff bottles, which had been given to this religious order missionary family from Ontario that opened a medical facility in a remote area of China, and for quite some time till 1949 when they were asked to leave.
The auction house sent the collection to California for their Oriental auctions. it did very well.
Your box is fascinating. Good luck if you decide to put it up for auction eventually.
Hi truthordare thank you for positive comments, very kind of you, peter
For your interest I have had a go at translating the text, I would welcome your thoughts on if I am correct in my translation so, the front of the box says ( I think ??)
‘Da Gu Qianlong Imperial System’
The letters on the inside of the box appears to read
‘The bright lights of Hamada are all carved by Zhang Ning and Qin Qinwei and the Luode River Kingdom. Bringing fire to the show, I hope you will have a visit to the Sanctuary of the Sacred Field’
The letters on the underside in gold gilding appear to say
‘ Da Qian Qianlong Qing System’
I understand my translation is lacking in beauty, but I’ve done my best. Any comments please
Cheers
Peter
‘
I am familiar with the usual reign characters, which are documented and easy to find, I also know that much of the calligraphy text added is often poetic, and has to do with either the purpose of the item and the location it was made.
Your translation seems accurate, few people are able to translate exactly as some characters are difficult with a variety of meanings. Even for the Chinese, who shy away from doing this if asked, unless they have studied it.
Thank for posting this very interesting item here.
P.S. System would probably mean reign instead. Often it's written THE 'GREAT' QIANLONG REIGN Made. :-)
Many thanks truthordare, i appreciate your comments and thank you for your correction,
Peter
Hi keramikos, thank you for your interest and your comments, I agree, there is a reason people shy away from translation.
Who knows you could have made a better job of it than me
Thank you for your your interesting reply, very much appreciated
Peter
If anyone needs help identifying or appraising chinese art, I have a tip to share. Peter Combs have a very good paid service ($12) on his site: https://bidamount.com/
Roll to the bottom of the page to find the ID and appraisal links.
Nice box by the way.
Mcheconi,
Thank you for your advice and positive comments, they are very welcome
Cheers
Peter
Another thought is about the purpose, I have owned Chinese document boxes, and they have a different proportion than yours, they don't use the 8.5 by 11 inches regular size for us paper, I think that your box is too shallow for that, but it was certainly made for a special purpose, perhaps with a gift for the emperor.
Mine was longer with a smaller width, and matching height, something like my link, except it was red and green fine wood with finished exterior and plain interior, each side had panels of decorative scenic carved cinnabar.
https://cdn.incollect.com/sites/default/files/zoom/An-Antique-Chinese-Huanghauli-Document-Box-124160-77465.jpg
Hi truthordare, thank you again for your constructive comments, if it happens to be as you suggest, a pressie for the emperor that would be amazing
Cheers
Peter
This is fake, though pretty good quality. I am guessing late-19th to early 20th c.
1. Poem is by Tang poem Li Qiao called Dragon (http://www.shicimingju.com/chaxun/list/158220.html). It is unlikely that Qianlong would inscribe other people's poems on his beloved objects. Plus the calligraphy doesn't look like his. IF he did, then this would mean the content would be some kind of pictorial image related to dragon. An album perhaps? A jade?
2. This type of box is so out of character with what actual imperial boxes look like. . . the joints are unrefined, the lacquer crude, and the wood is definitely not zitan, something you would see used by Qianlong. You may want to compare to examples from the exhibition a few years back focusing on the packaging of Qianlong art: http://wei495051.pixnet.net/album/set/18263723
3. While Qianlong LOVED colors, this is not the right color combo.
4. Most suspiciously is the title. "Imperially made by Qianlong of the Great Qing." What is the object in that title? The point of having a box is to know what's INSIDE without looking inside. The title on the box doesn't tell us that. Usually, that phrase shows up in another context. Rarely on titles because hopefully his servants and himself know that he's the person who made it happen and doesn't need to be reminded of the reign name. If this were part of a set numbers would be used and the term Qianlong" would be in smaller character. In practice (see the exhibition), this phrase would be shortened to "imperially made." AND it would give us some clues about the content: a poetic name, volume, what it is, etc.
I have looked at the Exhibition you mentioned and I see 2 similar boxes both with similar lozenge with the writing on I must say that there is no colour to either just dark brown, for your argument to stand up surely the comparison boxes must be highly coloured as you have mentioned?
Thank you for your interest
Peter
Basically the dark brown color you see is zitan, which was mostly reserved for imperial furniture (which this would fall under). This is NOT zitan wood and thus a big negative against it. It may still be possible that it was made at the end of the dynasty when everything tends to be a little bit sloppy and of a poorer quality, hence my dating. However the inclusion of the "Qianlong" mark suggests this was made to deliberately deceive.