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Trying to identify Black on Black pottery

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Pottery704 of 12310Big teapotAmerican Indian Pottery? Who know something about this?
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    Posted 3 years ago

    Sarahspins
    (2 items)

    Hello! This is my first post. I am going through my mother’s pottery pieces and have come across these four pieces of black on black pottery. I have read up on the Santa Clara and San Il Defonso pottery, but am unable to confirm if these come from Maria or Julian or any of those related potters as none of them are signed. Is anyone able to tell me what else I can look for that might answer whether or not these are authentic? I know my mother has had them for a very long time, but am unsure where she got them and she cannot remember. Thanks!

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    Comments

    1. Gillian, 3 years ago
      https://wam.umn.edu/2019/11/19/native-american-heritage-month-maria-julian-martinez/

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pauwrf6ncis

      "Signatures
      Maria and Julian’s oldest works dating from around 1918 – 1923 are all unsigned due to the traditional functional and communal nature of pottery making in the Pueblo. Once the Martinez’s pieces gained exposure and success as fine art pieces, Maria began signing the work with “Marie,” and soon after, “Marie + Julian.” Following Julian’s death in 1943, the Martinez family continued the pottery practice, and Maria worked closely with her daughter-in-law, Santana, and son, Popovi Da, to carry on the work."
    2. Gillian, 3 years ago
      https://www.google.ca/search?q=san+ildefonso+pottery+signatures&tbm=isch&hl=en&chips=q:san+ildefonso+pottery+signatures,online_chips:blackware:z03CCXY45sA%3D,online_chips:julian+martinez:_R3FgesrHPI%3D,online_chips:maria+montoya+martinez:2eq2-OO-Kso%3D&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjonoKm5rjxAhVILK0KHeukBAgQ4lYoBHoECAEQJQ&biw=1905&bih=950
    3. CanyonRoad, 3 years ago
      The largest wide and shallow bowl is not Native American. It is Mexican black pottery from Oaxaca. Native American potters that make black on black pottery do not use this type of design patterns, which are associated with Oaxacan black pottery.

      The other three do appear to be from San Ildefonso. With very few exceptions, Santa Clara black pottery is thicker, and features designs actually carved into the clay.

      Although Maria and Julian were from San Ildefonso, not Santa Clara, these three pots were not made by them. Her pots have been signed since the 1920s. Most Native American potters, however, didn't sign their pots until the 1960s, if then, and there have been literally hundreds of potters at San Ildefonso, making similar pots.

      The figure on the larger of the three NA pots is the horned or feather-plumed Avanyu, the water serpent deity. Every potter had a preferred style of representing it, especially when it came to the treatment of the plume or horn, and the eyes. That may be the best way of determining who may have made this particular pot. It is not a style used by Maria and Julian.

      Knowing the potter's name, however, is not going to make much difference in this case, since these are authentic small souvenir pots, traditionally made and fired, from San Ildefonso, dating to the last half of the 20th century, and if they had been made by a relatively famous potter, would have been signed.
    4. Sarahspins, 3 years ago
      Thank you so very much! This information was VERY helpful!!!

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