Posted 13 years ago
tlmbaran
(136 items)
Chris & Scott...I need your help on this. I know the OBVIOUS, its a Scouts guidon. But why is the red portion larger than the white? Is this for a vehicle or Huey antenna?? I have never seen another one like it. This was an Ebay find several years ago for $3.00. It measures aprox 9" X 13" and is embroidered double sided. I have a cardboard tube that you find on the hangers you get from the dry cleaners acting as the flag pole.
So WHO were the 64 1-20 scouts? IS this Vietnam or earlier? I was a Navy guy, so I am lost with this. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!!
I think that it may be more modern than VN.
The 64th Armor is part of 3 ID out of FT Stewart. I am not familiar with the 1-20.
It MAY be a case of a guard unit that was attached to the 64th for a period of time during OEF or OIF, but I cannot find any unit that would fit.
Sorry that I cannot be more helpful.
Scott
This is interesting. The swallow tail design says guidon but the dimensions are totally wrong. Same with the division of the colors. It is the new design for a guidon as reading the numbers goes. Old design the numbers would read backward as would the word scouts on one side. I enjoy any military stuff and will see what I can find on this because it interests me.
Thanks guys....any additional info would be appreciated. Flag is all cotton, and has that "stored away for a while" smell to it......I got it like 6 years ago I think....
The material doesn't conform to the modern AR that covers military flags, guidons, vehicle flags etc. Modern ones are required to be made of Rayon or if unavailable then Nylon. I forget the year that went into effect but will see if I can look it up. Same reg also gives the required dimensions, display etc.
Thats why I was thinking Viet Nam era...or Post Viet Nam.....But again, I was a Navy guy, so something like this is a little out of my league. Now, about the colors...why is the flag more red than white? what does that mean??
I hope to find you some solid information soon, but I’ll address your last question now. I am working on the theory that the color alignment represents a flag that, if it were rectangular, would have the colors divided on a diagonal between lower left and upper right corners, and that alignment of colors would represent the position held by the occupant – i.e. commander’s vehicle, etc; or an element within the organization. I just haven’t found proof for my theory yet!
One thing I feel sure of is that this was locally procured and not ordered through the supply system. In addition to the non (current) regulation fabric and size, the crossed swords do not follow the regulation pattern. They have a scabbard “drag” at the tips of the swords, but the scabbards do not have rings. The whole thing has that locally made feel to me. So if the fabric, size and insignia don’t exactly follow the regs, for all we know the local commander got creative and had something made that isn’t authorized by the regs. I’ll keep looking.
I just finished spending part of my evening reading Army Regulation 840-10, which covers flags, guidons, and vehicle flags, and there’s nothing there that describes this item. It is too small to be a guidon (standard size is 20” x 27”), so I think it was designed to be a pennant on a vehicle antenna. Even though it is swallow tailed, it’s design does not comply with current army regulations for guidons, and I don’t believe it’s just a small copy of an actual guideon. I still think it represents a rectangular flag with the colors split diagonally, but with the swallow tail added. I can’t think of another reason for the weird way the colors are divided. I’ve given up on the rest of my theory about it though.
Thanks guys!.....could be a "parting gift" made locally given to a C.O. who was transfering out, as a "remember me" from his troops.... I don't know, but I really appreciate all your help in nailing this down. Still a cool piece, and displays well.
Thanks again!
Could be a parting gift, but probably not for the Commander. Most Commanders keep the actual unit guidon.
Could have been someone else in the unit-- PSG, PL...
Scott
About six months before we shut down Ft Ord, we declared our guidon unserviceable and ordered another one. So, when we inactivated the unit, we had two guidons to present, one for the CO and one for the 1SG.
Always a way to get around stuff.
Chris