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Posted 12 years ago
Perfumer
(123 items)
hi! Just bought this lovely perfume; looking for more info? I believe it is english? There are two tiny hallmarks on the outside of the lid;one may be a b? and the other hallmarks shown are on the inside of the lid, sorry, this was the best I could get something like R & _?? a lion an anchor and ? Any help would be appreciated; I collect czech bottles, so this is a different type for me - :) :) :)
thanks!
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What a delightful piece! Blue, flowers and silver is enough to make my heart skip. *LOL* Don't hold me to this, but from what I can see in the photo, which I doctored a bit to enhance, I'm going to take a stab at this. I believe it's British silver. With no duty mark it's after 1890, the anchor would be for Birmingham, what looks to me to be a "k" in a circle would make it 1884. If miKKo, who is great with calligraphy, should stop by you may get a different and better answer for the letter date. I'm mostly going by the font of the letter and the fact it's in a circle. If there IS a duty mark which I don't see in your picture, then the date would certainly be different. If you ever figure out for sure the maker's mark, the R & ? and whatever is beside it I hope you'll post it. Thanks for showing this! :-)
Ooops.. forgot to mention the lion passant is for British Sterling, and if it's a "k", it should have a duty mark. If not, perhaps it's a "q" for 1890 and has no duty mark. Sorry if that's confusing! Sort of thought out loud while I was typing and didn't get it in proper order.
The silver mark anchor is the Birmingham town mark and the letter "k" is for 1884. The lion passant indicates 'sterling' .925 standard.
//www.925-1000.com/dlBirmingham5.html#M
The overlay cameo bottle certainly looks to be in the style of Thomas Webb & Sons.
Congratulations on a great find. Have a glass expert look at it. The maker's mark is indistinct from the photo but have a look around the silver sites for Birmingham makers "R & "
Thank you chinablue and vetraio50! Wonderful info; and have noted it all down!
this was my first posting :) :) - so was tickled to get responses :)
I don't know much at all about silver marks; am going to have to get educated! But this cameo glass has me all tickled!!!
thank you again :)
Looks like Overlay cameo glass as vetraio50 mentioned. LOVELY!!
for future reference, this site is helpful for identifying silver marks: http://www.925-1000.com/
gorgeous bottle!
Hi, Perfumer! Very beautiful bottle! Sorry couldn't help chinablue out with datemark - had to go to appointment in another city and then library. But! While at library, I checked out a book that has a good sampling of English cameo scent bottles. The book is "Antique Trader's Perfume Price Bottle Guide" by Kyle Husfloen, 2008 - not too hard to find.
I have some observations to make. First, many of these cameo perfume bottles were made in Birmingham, and many by unknown artists/firms. IMO, Yours could be by Thomas Webb & Sons, but it could also be by an unknown English glass artist. (I would also check out Stevens & Williams and John Northwood.) On p. 17, there is a Webb flacon that features a very similar leaf treatment. I mention this because before I went to the library, my impression was that the
carving on your bottle looked stiffer and less 'realistic' than the Webbs I had
seen. However, I now think that your bottle shows significant points of difference to the grander Webb bottles I've seen, but I also note that it is well done and not too unlike a certain type of Webb bottle, especially as concerns the leaves.
I found the same leaf in a flacon by unknown artist on p. 85. Something that struck me between your bottle and a Webb bottle is that, IMO, your carving might well have been executed in higher relief than a Webb. The difference in projection values of the firms is just an impression.
You can see some Webb examples on p.79 and p.84. On p. 85, you will find the aforementioned (cylindrical blue) bottle with leaves similar to yours, and an eliptical spherical bottle with leaves similar to yours. Both by unknown makers. Interestingly, on p.85 in the upper left corner, you will see a bottle that is not cameo glass but which has a silver collar and cap. Birmingham hallmark - is it similar to your hallmark? Perhaps someone could apply a filter and take the glare out of your hallmark photo.PP. 174-178, more Webb bottles, and on p.175 mention of a silversmith named Keller (Robert Keller, perhaps? I couldn't find an image of his mark on the internet.) that Webb used. Here's another hallmarks link, with some Birmingham silversmith makers marks.
http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/Birmingham-R.html
Hope this makes some sense. I am having a hard time making sense right now. Thanks. Regards, miKKo
Hi, Perfumer. Sorry about my wacko syntax and bad grammar. Utterly exhausted, but didn't want to fail chinablue, so typed up my thoughts tonight. I greatly admire your beautiful scent bottle!, and apologize for the pidgin English. miKKo
Hi MiKKo,
You made perfect sense to me! And thank you kindly for such great info! I really appreciate it! I did believe it to be cameo glass but no ideas there were several manufacturers!! I will try to get a better pic of the hallmarks, they are in the inside bottomif the lid...., love this site !! But it is dangerous - LOL!!! I have seen lots of neat things I Don't collect, Yet!!!! Have a good one!!!
Perfumer, you're very welcome. I think you should really check out the hallmarks well, perhaps with a loupe and see if there is a duty mark on this piece. Being British, it should have a profile in an oval and could be facing either right or left. The duty mark was punched on English silver items from December 1, 1784 to April 30, 1890 so that would help in the dating. The letter is used to actually date the piece, but many of them look alike so it's helpful to know which duty mark, if any is on the piece to narrow the search.
And Perfumer.. you're right.. this is a dangerous place...be very very careful.. collecting is terribly contagious. I am a carrier.. and I suspect miKKo is too.. as well as many other on here! But what a delightful and fun malady! Consider yourself warned! ;-)
hi perfumer - just popped by to say thanks for all your comments on my perfume post which got deleted! I managed to read them on my email and they were very helpful. :-)
Harrach also did cameo that is basically identical in style to british cameo of this nature.
just because the metal work is english doesn't mean the glass is english too. They'd sell the glass and the company they were selling it to would often add the metal.
Hi, Greatsnowyowl! I read your comments with great interest! I did find some Harrach cameo glass samples, but none that matched the flower or foliage in the above piece, or a close match to this type of carving. Of course, that doesn't rule out the possibility. Have you seen a Harrach perfume close to this bottle? Do you share my impression that the relatively high relief of the flower would be unusual for Webb? In your experience, is this high relief closer to Harrach's reliefs? Your point on the silver is well taken. miKKo
*°·`*~~ SEASON'S GREETINGS - PERFUMER!~~*`.°*
What a great find!!!