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Posted 12 years ago
sandee
(5 items)
I am trying to identify this vintage platter. The only marking on the back was very tiny. I hope I was able to capture it clearly in the pic. It is blue and white, 12" by 9½", with no chips or cracks. I would appreciate it if someone could identify with a possible value on it. Thanks
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What a great piece, sandee!! Bellin, you may well be right. This one really has me puzzled. I think it's very early too. I'm just wondering if it's English or if it's an Asian import. First, there are birds, but not the two birds together.(these weren't on the first Blue Willow either, though) Second, only one person is on the bridge (rather than the 3 or 4 usually seen) or even on the plate, as best as I can see. Third, no ship with sails beyond the bridge. Fourth, the larger home is usually on the right, not the left.
What I think is the willow, on the right is such a lovely interpretation, one of the most pleasing I've ever seen! And I think it does have the apple tree. The mark on the back.. well, at least for now, I haven't a clue.
So, sorry sandee, but for now, I can't tell you much more. I promise I'll keep digging and see what I can find for you. I still have a few places to look for more information. If and/or when I have something more definite, I'll post it here. It is a beautiful platter and it's certainly old. I'm sure you're proud of it. I know I would be! :-)
Alrighty, sandee.. let's see what we've got so far. I have a little more information that will hopefully help us on this search. I'm sure Bellin can weigh in on this and maybe some others will take the time to help in your pursuit! Bellin, you're fast on your feet.... get out there and grab some people into this link and get us more brain cells! They'll never suspect that you'd be laying in wait for them and I'm sure they'd enjoy it if you could drag 'em in. :-)
I'm still not convinced it's English in origin. We can tell from the fact it doesn't have country of origin on it that it is from before the 1920s or wasn't meant for export. I think that it's most likely mid 1800's, like Bellin said and perhaps earlier. I also get a little bit of a flow blue application feeling on this piece too, but that could just be from the photographs. After looking at an enlargement of your photos, from what I can see, your piece seems to have the 'mosquito' or brocade border rather than the Spode border that has the geometric, almost greek key sort of look to it. Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post, all the things you normally see in "Blue Willow" aren't on this piece. Here is a little explanation that I found on the net you might want to read:
"The process of making blue willow is a transfer process to the piece as an underglaze, this process started out as a copper transfer plate by the english whereas now we screen transfer and other methods of technology to get the underglaze. The Chinese version was to mix water with the blue and paint on the design and then fire the piece. These images include a bridge with three people crossing it, a willow tree, a boat, a main teahouse, 2 birds flying and a fence. No known Chinese pattern has all of the images placed on one piece as the English patterns do."
Again, I have yet to find a willow tree that looks like the one on the right side of your plate on anything, anywhere. So, what does anyone else think? Is it English, Asian, or something else? And does it look like a bit like flow to anyone else? We can't let this platter beat us! :-)
uh... well... lemme see.... Bellin, I admit it. I have NO idea at this point. What about you?? Next on my to do list is start looking for the mark on this one. I can't tell if it's a symbol, a lower case B, a 9 or a lowercase Q. Got any thoughts on that? I thought it might be easiest if I'd post an example of the two different borders. Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. :-)
Mosquito or Tapestry form:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jGqrwvtkg_k/S4wqiHKEXGI/AAAAAAAAAcI/_YyjLBe4mxY/s400/Blue%252BWIllow%252BBurleigh.jpg
Spode form:
http://image0-rubylane.s3.amazonaws.com/shops/owensantiques/1242.1L.jpg
I've been trying to find some really early examples but so far no luck. I know that the very early ones were different than what we are familiar with now, so Bellin may be on the right track!
sandee, I didn't feel right doing anything with your pictures myself, but you might want to take a look at this site and perhaps send them a link or an email with your platter photos. In the mean time, I'm still looking!
http://www.willowcollectors.org/messageboard.html
Hi, you 2 are very knowledgeable and I appreciate your efforts. Like I said before, all the pieces I have were given to me and I have no clue about collecting pottery. I am a little more up on my majolica pieces, but that, too, is hard to trace as most majolica didn't have markings. A couple of years ago, I went to the library to read books & pics about it but still now sure about the origin of some. I also have a couple of pieces of Bennington (parian) pottery which I was able to look up. Most of my pieces are the blue & white which I will continue to post, but I want to give you a chance to digest what I already sent. As for my pictures, you're welcome to do whatever you like with them. I could email to the link you gave me, but if they ask me questions, I probably would be at a loss. Thanks, again. Oh, you guys are funny, I'm enjoying.
Hey again sandee! I went ahead and posted to the IWC site. Now we just cross our fingers and wait. I'll be checking on that post until I hear something! *LOL* :-)
Pretty nice list there, BELLIN. Maybe we should do like mikielikesigns2 does and make it a game! Only problem is what would we give as the prize to the one with the right answer? I'm still leaning a bit toward Asian, but it's more a hunch than anything to do with knowledge.
Great detective work, Bellin! I had wondered earlier if it might be flow, mainly because of the mark and and along the edges. If it is, it's some of the nicest I've seen. I really don't care for the 'over' flow look, but this is really nice and still sharp enough to retain it's pattern well. I'll do some checking later tonight if I get a chance. Still nothing from the board I posted to, but then who knows how long it might take if ever to get a nibble on that. Keep those fingers tappin'! :-)
After looking at & trying to digest your posts Bellin & chinablue, I came to the conclusion that I know absolutely nothing about this subject!..... lol
Nice platter sandee, thanks for sharing.
LOL @ walksoftly.. like I do!? I can't speak for Bellin, but I'm just a really good googler. :-) And trust me, anything you can add or any thoughts you have would be a great help. We're really just brainstorming. I love a good search! The more the merrier. Come on, bring your friends!
I love a mystery as well & sometimes offer up info that people don't even want to know.
As for this I feel like I woke up & I'm standing on the starting line of the 100 metre dash at the Olympics & I haven't run that far in twenty years;-) (out of my league)
I Love it!!
walksoftly, you are NOT out of your league. Come on in, the water's fine. I see you brought a friend with you, too. See, you've already helped! Come on musikchoo, dive on in. You know, you should always swim with a buddy. I'm sure sandee wouldn't mind you all in the pool and would love to have this riddle solved! And we have water-wings for anyone who might need them too! I've laughed more today over the search for this lovely platter's story than I have in weeks. :-)
I can't find the pool I'm still at the track.
*LOL* too funny!
lol walksoft :-) Maybe the wading pool is closer to the track . Your good at finding out info . I am not even in the car on the way to track I am so far behind .
Maybe we could just set up a sprinkler for walksoftly to stroll under. Maybe manikin would enjoy that too, you think?? ;-)
As long as it's in the shade;-)
Well, no! *LOL* If I had finally found out something I'd be dancing under the sprinkler right about now. It's making me crazy that I can find NOTHING about this. I can't even find anything with a similar tree as the large one on the right. But I now know about a thousand patterns that it's not and learned a lot along the way! I tend to be a bit obsessive.. and a little tenacious.. can ya tell?? ;•)
I think those traits are shared by many of us collectors:-)
Very true, walksoftly. :-)
Ok.. I found a platter that is NOT this pattern by any stretch of the imagination, BUT.. does anyone else think the trees on the right of these pieces are similar? This is the first one I've found that was even close. I know it's a reach, but this "willow" tree is a very unusual form. Does anyone else see it or is it just my tired eyes? I'm not sure, but I believe that this one I found is Dutch.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tw5v31VnYyA/TpW6XV7q-sI/AAAAAAAAAhM/SNcUlAMuXvI/s400/Blue+and+White+002.JPG
Hi, all. FABULOUS PLATTER!!!! I am swooning - dare I look again?
Also, I think that the discussion is most excellent! Chinablue, I do see a similarity between the two platters in the willow tree on the right. They are both abstract and highly stylized. However, I can't confirm that they're from the same artist, or pottery, firm, style, period, export audience, or country. I love Blue Willow and blue and white 'china'!, but I am clueless as to the origin of this magnificent platter. Sorry. miKKo
Hi miKKo! I haven't seen you around for a few days. I hope all is well with you. As you can see, we've been having a bit of fun while trying to identify this lovely piece for sandee. I'm glad that someone else sees a bit of similarity in that. I was afraid I was getting cross-eyed from searching patterns and designs! :-)
*I think we found something* Thanks to someone at the International Willow Collectors, I got the following information.
"The platter has the pattern known as "Feathered Hat", and the maker is unknown. It is named for the figure on the bridge. His hat does not really have a feather in it. There is a hole in the hat that lets his pigtail go through, but the name came from British people who didn't know that. It is early 1800s."
I hope this helps and if I find more information, such as maker or other references, I'll post them here. :-)
Bellin, I didn't want to highjack that post where you had asked about this, but couldn't remember what item it was that you posted your question about that the other day.
And NOW, I've found a place with pictures of other pieces! You can have a look here: http://www.blueandwhite.com/museum.asp?m=Unattributed+Maker&p=Feathered+Hat/
Heaven! I have stumbled upon heaven. I marveled over sandee's gorgeous platter, and now I am marveling at its kin folk, too. Very fine sleuthing, indeed, chinablue!!!
Thank you Bellin and miKKo. All I really did though was manage to find someone else that knew. But I can guarantee none of us will ever forget this patttern! *LOL* It was a fun hunt with you two! :-)
For now, we're off to visit our daughter and her family for the weekend.. and explore some other shops and flea markets in northern Virginia. Always some great stuff up there, especially civil war items.. but it is much more expensive than in our neck of the woods down here in the southern mountains!