Kralik Streifen und Flecken, circa 1900 | ||
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Posted 13 years ago
famatta127
(207 items)
Standing over 11" tall, this is one of the finest Kralik's you will ever see. Its a direct competitor to that made by Loetz, the example on the far right.
It serves as an example of how talented other Bohemian Glasshouses were at the start of the 20th Century. Loetz didn't own the patent on Art Nouveau beauty.
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How can you tell the difference between the Loetz version and the Kralik ? They look identical to me.
F.W.F
Exactly!...the only difference is the shape in which they were produced and the ground color. Loetz Color was violet while Kralik was plum/purple/amethyst
Drool...
This is definately 100% a loetz vase. Exactly what you discribe as colour is a Loetz vase. Kralik never ever had that talent and knowledge to produce this kind of quality. This vase has a value over 25 000 $. Its a Koloman moser - Wiener Werkstätte vase by Koloman Moser. the 4 Leafes is the part of the sign and design of Wiener Werkstätte. The number 4 is very important to Wiener Werkstätte. Many Leotz and Kralik vases were misinterpreted. The colour is 100% Loetz. The foot and form is also Loetz. Some photographs not exist today anymore. The quality of the melt makes the difference between Loetz and Kralik, as well as the polished pontil. Kralik had more an uneven broken pontil. All others are Loetz and stay Loetz.
Hope I could help out.
Greetings
Ron (Collector)
http://www.google.de/imgres?q=Loetz+streifen+und+flecken&start=132&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=941&tbm=isch&tbnid=f_aR5ZTT3kOlgM:&imgrefurl=http://www.imkinsky.com/en/index-of-artists/item/%3FKatNr%3D0626%26AukNr%3D61%26Kuenstler%3DJohann%2BL%25F6tz%2BWitwe%2BKlosterm%25FChle&docid=t-p_wGAPcPPZ1M&imgurl=http://www.imkinsky.com/objektimages/61/gross/7195_01.jpg&w=600&h=425&ei=8ujlT5_dMaGp4gTJ5cC9AQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=822&vpy=129&dur=5292&hovh=189&hovw=267&tx=185&ty=136&sig=116069415492445133237&page=3&tbnh=143&tbnw=228&ndsp=64&ved=1t:429,r:24,s:132,i:182
this is darkblue one
and this is streifen und flecken but not a Loetz colour - but its Loetz for Bakalowitz
http://www.google.de/imgres?q=Loetz+streifen+und+flecken&start=260&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=941&tbm=isch&tbnid=HjMjWPgn8yM3bM:&imgrefurl=http://www.imkinsky.com/en/index-of-artists/item/%3FAukNr%3D79%26KatNr%3D0604%26Kuenstler%3DKrasnik%2BAntoinette&docid=_1RK-9545JiOTM&itg=1&imgurl=http://www.imkinsky.com/objektimages/79/gross/0604.jpg&w=552&h=600&ei=aejlT7_RJKjV4QSO5ui-AQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=290&sig=116069415492445133237&page=5&tbnh=144&tbnw=141&ndsp=64&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:260,i:248&tx=113&ty=47
Most collectors trow their Vases out because of misinterpreted guessings.
Loetz and Kralik - differ in quality. There were much Streifen und Flecken which were produced - most in purple and green - some in blue and very seldom in white...
Greetings
Ron
This is what makes this such a great country. I disagree with you. Kralik did their own examples of Streifen un Flecken and the shape is 100% Kralik.
they didnt had the knowledge of that kind of quality. Show me some other Kralik vases made with other patterns... and then decide... that this one is the only one. Cant be. Your false information destroyes prices too.
Kralik is not Loetz.
I agree with the mis-information. So long never has any copies or documents of Kralik vases at any time shown in any auction or documentary . This is Loetz for me. I am a collector which loves to see the difference and I can decide weather its Kralik or not. My grandma bought at Kralik store and bought also Loetz vases. Kralik never ever came up to any quality as Loetz. No history known show gave Kralik the opportunity to show their objects. It was Loetz , Steuben , Tiffany. Kralik was like Rindskopf an ordinary producer with low quality glass. Noone could afford Loetz anymore. So it was their mismanagement.
No firm in any country produes same quality of any kind. There is always a difference. And the lines of loetz and this vase shown are white. Noone is talking about the same melt finish. The irrediscence was a big treasure and was hidden. Even Tiffany and WMF was unable to copy that. A real collector can decide it. We dont need any further information in this case.
This is and stays as loetz. Passau and all the other auction houses are managed with false information. Even the Passau museum has swapped Loetz and Kralik.
So they did with this purple vases.
Loetz is in quality like this one - unreached. Tiffany cant procude that - as well As Steuben and all the other brands.
If you are a serious collector - you should have known this.
All what I know that Loetz copied the Gre 6893 from venetian art glass (wave pattern) - but you can see the difference clearly. The loetz artist Otto Prutscher copied his checker-board vases with the bubble as well as from Venetian glass manifacturers, which had this pattern after the mid-age. And noone talkes about that this is not coming close to murano glass Quality. You will see always a difference. Not a tiny one - a big one.
Iridescent vases and the finish was a secret that no firm shared with other firms. Its the same with Coca Cola tresure - I think that Americans here will know better than me.
That was connected direct with their business. I hope everyone will see that even today the iredescence is different to Okra, Durand, and WMF . I can tell a vase by their melt iredescence. This makes the big difference. I can tell if its unsigned Venetian Venini vase or just AVEM or whatever a maker it is.
To make it short. If noone has an orignal price tag of Loetz or Kralik, if noone has any original book of Kralik, if noone has any rare film material which shows that kind of vases on a big event - then I do trust no Museum and no auction house nor what here is discussed - I do trust only myself that what I know by seeing the glass and through it. Most of the Loetz vases are not documented or in a document and are unavailable today even the book Bohemian Glass with the CD shows just a tiny example. Its with Venini the same.
To colours:
Loetz produced more than just one violet purple tone - they had many.
Why has Loetz here in this forum just one tone with violett?
There are so many blue tones and I have one in Orange, light yellow , Orange-red... and whatever.
the white line is 1:1 the same colour and iredscence like the blue one has. The Orange spots are 1:1 the same tone colour like the blue one has from Koloman Moser. Where are the forensic mens out here?
Here is the proof:
The violett tone is 1:1 the same as one their Streifen und Flecken used one. All violetts are misinterpreted because of one or two big locations.
http://www.google.de/imgres?q=violett+loetz+vase&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=941&tbm=isch&tbnid=PSxHwtlGGjG4mM:&imgrefurl=http://www.herr-auktionen.de/kataloge/onlinekatalog/detailansicht/article/2-vasen-halbedelsteinglas-1/%3Ftx_ttnews%255Byear%255D%3D1970%26tx_ttnews%255Bmonth%255D%3D01%26tx_ttnews%255Bday%255D%3D01%26cHash%3D8adf3aea3391ddb6159ce133226b7769&docid=sN6oqGUpuu3GsM&imgurl=http://www.herr-auktionen.de/uploads/pics/224.jpg&w=533&h=800&ei=VSTnT66gFMTf4QThju2fAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1430&vpy=149&dur=688&hovh=275&hovw=183&tx=112&ty=151&sig=116069415492445133237&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=111&start=0&ndsp=59&ved=1t:429,r:19,s:0,i:128
From the line drawings I've seen this actually looks closer to a typical Fritz Heckert shape than Kralik :) although this exact shape is not shown in the book some very very similar ones were. I haven't seen any actual proof of Kralik. It's good to remember there were more players than the two that generally get bandied about. :)
There is a new loetz pattern book out there. it contains all of the existing loetz patterns from 1900-1915. Although from what I can tell most of 1900-1903 is missing.
Hi Roscoe. You say your Grandma purchased direct from both Loetz and Kralik - that is fascinating. Do you have some of her pieces with known provenance that you can post for us to look at? To make the comparison that you are making? Also, you refer to price tags and documents. Does that mean you have access to your grandma's original price tags and purchase documents? If so, we would love to see them. Please post - referring to auction sites is one thing, letting us see your own pieces quite another. I, for one, would love to see your source material!
Hi Roscoe. You say your Grandma purchased direct from both Loetz and Kralik - that is fascinating. Do you have some of her pieces with known provenance that you can post for us to look at? To make the comparison that you are making? Also, you refer to price tags and documents. Does that mean you have access to your grandma's original price tags and purchase documents? If so, we would love to see them. Please post - referring to auction sites is one thing, letting us see your own pieces quite another. I, for one, would love to see your source material!
My point was, I am not so sure these "recognized shapes" are indeed kralik at all.
Hi Roscoe
... on the "Forensics men" ... They would be the ones you disagreeing with ...
From what Jitka was saying that information doesn't exist at all. It was all destroyed. It's not a matter of being a "doubting thomas" it's a matter of there being no solid evidence to call much of what is called Kralik, Kralik. Line drawings are more solid than whim in assigning attributions. Especially when the line drawings all are similar and follow various lines exactly. The silberbands are just about all documented in line drawing as Heckert. I think that pretty much destroys much of the line and shape attributions for Kralik.
BTW
The vase quoted in 15 - from Aucktionhaus Herr - is presently in my possession ... and is definitely not a color match for the pics above .. It is clear glass with a Titania finish ...
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/1
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/2
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/3
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/4
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/5
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/6
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/7
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/8
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/9
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/10
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/11
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/12
http://www.himmelspracht.de/Loetz/1
just change the end of the link 1 into 2, 3, 4 - 12
and Steve - its just about the colour - not about the technique.
http://www.google.de/imgres?q=loetz+vase&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=948&tbm=isch&tbnid=Zf-VYtyNcnZfZM:&imgrefurl=http://www.20thcentury-decorative-arts.co.uk/mike2.htm&docid=pRGV0dck9uYQAM&imgurl=http://www.20thcentury-decorative-arts.co.uk/Loetz-and-Osiris-2-%283%29.jpg&w=500&h=838&ei=8qrpT9mnGuWA4gTMi5HyDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=286&vpy=187&dur=5179&hovh=291&hovw=173&tx=94&ty=134&sig=116069415492445133237&page=1&tbnh=144&tbnw=86&start=0&ndsp=62&ved=1t:429,r:26,s:0,i:154
I am curious what the participants in this discussion think of this vase.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200783019339?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Fairly sure this is a trick question ... but ... was going more for modern reproduction ... wavy lines ... despite the pontil and the base wear ... maybe 50's - 60's ... Opalescence with a crackle finish makes me think latter day ...
The opalescent Striefen and flecken I have here is semi transparent bluish glass ... has a darker green and deeper (not surface) pattern to the stripes ... the inspiration is (I think) the Lamp shades in the pictures of the interior on the Family home in Klostermuhle (Abbey Mill in translation) in the books ...
I selfishly vote for it to be Loetz. ;)
The Corning Museum got it wrong, too?
http://www.cmog.org/artwork/streifen-und-flecken-stripes-and-spots?
Hi Mr T
... do we get to hear your thoughts on the white / green item ?
S