Posted 3 years ago
JamiePB
(1 item)
Is this a snuff box ?? I have been researching and cannot find anything similar. Curious box with screw in top.
Old Snuff box | ||
| AnythingObsc…'s loves895 of 9553 |  |  |
Old Snuff box | ||
| AnythingObsc…'s loves895 of 9553 | | |
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Posted 3 years ago
JamiePB
(1 item)
Is this a snuff box ?? I have been researching and cannot find anything similar. Curious box with screw in top.
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Where was it found, looks like someone cleaned it but link on chain have old wear
Hi, JamiePB. :-)
Very interesting. Could you add some dimensions to your post description?
The chain looks a bit short for anybody to wear it as a necklace.
At a glance, the alphabet characters on both sides of the locket (or whatever the circular container is) look like Greek, because that first character looks unambiguously like Delta. Others look unambiguously like Lambda and Rho. Some of the other characters also look Greek, albeit a bit run on (H, M).
However, I hit a serious stumbling block when I get to that character that looks a bit like a capital Roman T, but with a crossbar in the middle.
I can't find anything like it (about the closest I could find was the Kazakh or Uzbek letter Gayn (which looks similar to the Latin F).
It could be that I'm just failing to see something right under my nose, or it could be that this is some variety of faux alphabet writing.
Give it a whirl yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script
https://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/index.htm
As to the imagery, one side (it actually looks like the reverse side to me) looks a bit like a Ferris wheel. It probably isn't one, though. };-)
The other side (probably the obverse side) looks like a representation of some ancient or medieval Christian warrior/saint (there are a couple of crosses in the background). The character on horseback has a sort of halo around their head, and they seem to be impaling with a spear or pike the person on the ground.
Vlad the Impaler comes to mind, but he wasn't a saint by any stretch of the imagination.
Saint Michael also comes to mind, but then I can't by any stretch of the imagination get his name out of those alphabet characters.
I must be tired. Somebody else give it a whirl:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_saint
Well..at first was thinking St Martin, but he was merciful not merciless. So maybe St George..and the guy is the serpent? Not sure.. Thought the other side was a Maltese cross, but believe after closer look that it's a compass? Maybe it's just some wierd Knights Templar image?
dav2no1, Thanks, I knew there was some reason that image on (what I think is) the reverse side was nagging at the back of my brain:
https://www.maltauncovered.com/malta-history/maltese-cross/
I suppose it could be some kind of Knights Templar or other knights group thing.
Keramikos..The image of what I think is a compass was bugging me..I noticed that that half circle engravings are different numbers. And what that ink bottle/hairbrush thing at the bottom?
I found some image of a planetary compass thing that had a similar symbol at the bottom. A search led me to erik the victorious. Not sure if it's relevant, but look at the link under "Adam" and see the coin imagery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_the_Victorious
Maybe it's a treasure map to the riches? Ha
dav2no1, I think you lost me here:
"I noticed that that half circle engravings are different numbers."
However, "ink bottle/hairbrush thing" is as good of a description as any for that fulcrum thingy at the bottom of the wheel thingy. I say "thingy," because I like to be precise and scientific in my language. };-)
Here is the image I think you referenced:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Thesaurus_Nummorum_Sueo-Gothoricorum_1731_Tab_I.jpg
Alamy has a copy:
https://www.alamy.com/thesaurus-nummorum-sueo-gothoricorum-1731-tab-i-image152824858.html
So the wheel thingy might be Swedish.
That book was a bit difficult to track down, because of spelling differences, but here it is in worldcat dot org. However, worldcat doesn't tell you diddly about it:
https://www.worldcat.org/title/thesaurus-nummorum-sueo-gothicorum/oclc/1122911938
B&N has a listing for it, but is currently out of stock:
*snip*
This book, "Thesaurus nummorum sueo-gothicorum", by Elias Brenner, is a replication of a book originally published before 1731. It has been restored by human beings, page by page, so that you may enjoy it in a form as close to the original as possible.
*snip*
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/thesaurus-nummorum-sueo-gothicorum-elias-brenner/1018039039
Amazon has it:
https://www.amazon.com/Thesaurus-Nummorum-Sueo-Gothicorum-Latin-Brenner/dp/1169338631
So, a treasure map? Heck, yeah. };-)
It was a stretch with the strange cross with the shape at the bottom.
The half circles...a cross or compass should be symmetrical, but the filler engravings(half circles) are all different numbers. One has 6 half circles, one has 8, etc.
Maybe it's just how they engraved it and it has no meaning. The Engraving is pretty detailed, so I found it interesting that it wasn't precise in the center of the image
Figured out it is a Pyx - used to hold communion wafers during travels. I was totally stumped!!! It is 2-1/4 inches in diameter and 3/8 inches in height chain longer is about 7-1/2 inches. I am thinking was worn on belt.?? I sent pics to appraiser to see if they know letters or such. I’m thinking pic on front was St Michael but I have never seen him depicted on horse back. I received it in a box of antique items won in an auction.
JamiePB, I never would have guessed.
A Pyx:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/pyx
So, portable communion wafer holder. On a short chain, possibly to attach to a belt, a la a chatelaine. It would make sense for a priest wearing a pocketless robe.
Back to the image of the person with a halo on horseback: could it be Demetrius of Thessaloniki?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Saint_Demetrius_(bulgarian_icon).jpg
*snip*
According to hagiographic legend, as retold by Dimitry of Rostov in particular, Demetrius appeared in 1207 in the camp of tsar Kaloyan of Bulgaria, piercing the king with a lance and so killing him. This scene, known as the miracle of the destruction of tsar Kaloyan" became a popular element in the iconography of Demetrius. He is shown on horseback piercing the king with his spear, paralleling the iconography (and often shown alongside) of Saint George and the Dragon.
*snip*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_of_Thessaloniki
A'ight.
If I use the Greek spelling of Demetrius seen in the wikipedia piece as a guide, I might guess that the letters in the first word on the 'wheel' side of the Pyx to be:
Delta, Eta, Mu, Eta, Tau, and Sigma. Plugging that into the Latin conversion at lexiologos, I get "DEMETRS" (the E characters actually have lines above them, but I simplified to plain capital E characters, because I was afraid the CW S&T would render them as question marks).
"DEMETRS." That seems reasonably close to Demetrius doesn't it? Huh? Huh? };-)
Very interesting...a Pyx..never would have guessed that, since I didn't know what one was! And nice job Keramikos...
dav2no1, Thanks, but I never would have guessed a Pyx myself, because I previously had no idea that such a thing existed.
It would make sense for a priest who wears a pocketless robe to have a portable container that could be suspended from a belt.
Saint Demetrius seems like a good guess, given the Greek alphabet characters, the human figures, and what those figures are doing.
That wheel thingy is still a mystery, though.
I found an interesting Greek or Balkan Pyx:
*snip*
The base is not gilded but is decorated in niello with a Cross and the letters ‘IC AC’ and ‘INBI’ as well as other letters and what appears to be a date of 1850. (INBI stands for the Greek ‘Iesous o Nazoraios o Basileus ton Ioudaion’ or ‘Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews’.)
The interior is lined or at least filled in and gilded, making the box appropriate for the storage of an item meant for human consumption. A small ring is attached to the side to allow the box to be suspended from the neck or clothing of a priest. Such a loop would have aided with the portability of the box, which would have been important for when the priest would need to travel to administer last rites.
*snip*
https://www.michaelbackmanltd.com/archived_objects/balkans-or-greek-pyx/
So perhaps the wheel/compass thingy on the Pyx in this post is a cross. What that ink bottle/hair brush/fulcrum thingy is, I don't know.
As to the imagery of a person with a halo on horseback impaling somebody on the ground, there is more than one issue.
First, I now realize that the link to the JPG image at wikipedia that I put in a previous comment doesn't work. It might have something to do with the underscore characters, so I'll just refrain from linking directly to it again.
You can see it by going to the main wikipedia article for Demetrious of Thessaloniki, and scrolling down:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_of_Thessaloniki
The caption for the image reads:
*snip*
Modern Bulgarian icon of Demetrius spearing the gladiator Lyaeus, who is dressed in rather Turkish style (1824).
*snip*
However, an orthodoxwiki for Demetrius of Thessaloniki states:
*snip*
Demetrios was denounced by pagans who were envious of his success, and he was thrown into prison. While in prison he was visited by a young Christian named Nestor, who asked him for a blessing to engage in single combat with the giant Lyaios (or Lyaeus), who was posing as the champion of paganism. Demetrios gave his blessing and Nestor, against all odds, slew his opponent in the arena, as David had once defeated Goliath.
*snip*
He is depicted in earlier images in civilian aristocratic garb of the late Roman Empire, and in later iconography as a Byzantine soldier. Because of his military protection he is often paired with St. George of Cappadocia, another great military saint. They are usually depicted on horseback, with St. Demetrios spearing a man (perhaps Lyaios, or one of the pagan Slavs whose assaults he warded off from his city), while St. George spears a dragon.
*snip*
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Demetrius_of_Thessaloniki
So there seems to be some conflation of the roles of Saint Demetrious and Nestor in Orthodox icons, perhaps in an attempt to liken the former to Saint George.
Good stuff! I see the image now..
Keramikos you have been so very helpful. I had been researching this for weeks!!! Had zero idea what is was it language. Then someone was visiting and said what they thought it would be used for - as in their words looked religious In nature. Then my nephew looked up & found pyx. Had zero ideas of language. Thank you so very much. It is not very often I cannot figure out items.
JamiePB, You're welcome, but kudos to your nephew for finding Pyx. :-)
That image does strongly suggest Saint Demetrius, because a simple Internet search for Saint Demetrius or Saint Demetrios icon turns up numerous pictures of the saint on horseback with a spear and a defeated opponent on the ground.
If you ever take it to an expert to have the characters deciphered, please do let us know what they say.
dav2no1, Yeah, sorry about that bad link to the JPG. :-(
I tried it again on one of my own posts (so that I could delete it), and it just won't work here.
If you right click on the image at wikipedia, and open it in a new tab, it works fine. The CW S&T software perhaps doesn't like the parentheses, because that's exactly where it breaks.
There are still some mysteries about this item, but I think we can say it's a Pyx, and it has an image of Saint Demetrius/Saint Demetrios on it.
Now, about that ink bottle/hair brush/fulcrum... };-)
dav2no1, BTW, you were on the right track with Saint George, because it appears that the iconographers were busy making Saint Demetrios seem like Saint George. The people needed heroes.
Also, in the days before wide-spread literacy, the most powerful tool the church had for teaching the laity about religion was art.