Posted 2 years ago
Malatero2
(61 items)
Alright guys, I need a little help/This little round box, rescued from GW looks to be a pillbox at first glance. My hand is pictured for scale. Also, there are initials GHHA though they could be another language. What do you think? Pillbox, German? Wartime?
Any help with the Hallmark is appreciated.
Winner?
It has been identified as a Needle box, though its age is still in question. Thank you to keramikos for pointing me to a similar item in a 1915 medical instruments catalog. I only wonder why there aren't more of them around?
I searched "kny scheerer germany" and a bunch of medical stuff came up.
This one is interesting because it's also marked new york.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1297771507/vintage-kny-scheerer-corp-new-york-metal
Malatero2, dav2no1 is right about kny scheerer medical association. :-)
Also. the Aescelpius imagery (the staff with the snake wrapped around it) is a big tip off that it's medical.
It looked a bit big for a pill box to my eye, so I did some more poking around, and I think it might be a needle box:
https://archive.org/details/illustrationsofs00knys/page/2240/mode/1up
D'oh! My kingdom for an editor!
"dav2no1 is right about kny scheerer medical association. :-)
Also. the Aescelpius imagery (the staff with the snake wrapped around it) is a big tip off that it's medical."
Should be:
"dav2no1 is right about kny scheerer having a medical association. :-)
Also, the Aescelpius imagery (the staff with the snake wrapped around it) is a big tip off that it's medical."
I can't win for losing today. >8-0
"Aescelpius" should be "Asclepius."
i see the company became part of Vadsco Sales in the 1920's, then merged again. I think this is from the 20's or pre WWI
it could have held a medical device, but it seems more likely it held mints or pills i think.the owner GHHA.
The "GERMANY" on it means for export.
Malatero2, The initials on it could be personalization, but at four initials, it seems like it would have been somebody with a lotta names. Either Catholic, or pedigreed, or both. };-)
It could have been repurposed for mints or pills, but I do suspect the original intended use was to hold curved needles like item B/-6200 in that catalog.
Is the diameter on yours about 2.25 inches?
keramikos it is 2 3/5ths or as wide as a bill. I like the needle theory
Malatero2, Thanks for the measurements. :-)
So your KNY-Scheerer circular metal box is a bit larger than the one in the catalog.
That catalog is dated 1915, so it's just a snapshot of what KNY-S was offering in the way of surgical instruments that particular year. (Apropos of nothing, perusing that catalog is not for the faint of heart. >8-0 )
As blunderbuss2 observed, the "GERMANY" mark means export, to which I'd add, export to an English-speaking country.
The laws regarding import/export in the USA are pretty tangled, but it looks like the English name of the country became a requirment in 1890.
In 1914, the "Made in" part was added, so it seems like your KNY-S box might be pre-1914 if it was intended for export to the USA:
https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/17724/when-were-country-of-origin-labels-e-g-made-in-france-introduced
https://www.marketplace.org/2022/06/24/the-long-tangled-story-behind-country-of-origin-labels/
The history of the company trademark also seems a bit tangled. Per this case, KNY-S had been using the word "Aesculap" (which strikes me as a fairly obvious variant of "Asclepius") since 1899:
https://casetext.com/case/aktien-gesellschaft-etc-v-kny-scheerer
*snip*
US Court of Customs and Patent Appeals AKTIENGESELLSCHAFT FÜR FEINMECHANIK VORMALS JETTER & SCHEERER v KNY SCHEERER CORPORATION No 3,531 Decided December 2 1935 TRADE MARKS OPPOSITION AESCULAP Registration of trade mark Aesculap Held properly refused in view of prior registration by predecessor of opposer of the same mark for goods of the same descriptive properties and opposer's use on such goods of a trade mark consisting of a Staff Entwined Serpent and Crown which is symbolic of the word Aesculap.
*snip*
https://books.google.com/books?id=LiigAAAAMAAJ
Per radiomuseum dot org:
KNY-Scheerer Corp. of America; New York City, New York (USA)
Abbreviation: kny
The company made a line of surgical instruments and manufactured X-Ray tubes between 1918-1925. Before WW I, the Kny-Scheerer Company used a crowned snake coiled around a scepter as their trademark. After WW I they switched their trademark to "Kayess," as in K and S for Kny-Scheerer.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=13960
Judging from the cover of this catalog, it looks like the USA branch of KNY-S was still using the crown-surmounted Aesculap as their logo as late as 1924:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233700589670
Here is all I could find for KNY-Scheerer in the not-terribly-friendly USPTO/TESS system:
https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4810:t0h2kg.5.1
Now my head hurts, but the USPTO/TESS system tends to do that to me.
In looking again at those initials, they strike me as a bit crudely engraved, as though they had been done by an amateur. It also occurred to me that four initials might represent an organization.
I couldn't find any organizations in this list that spoke to me, but your mileage may vary:
https://www.acronymfinder.com/GHHA.html
Anyway, the engraved initials might remain a mystery, but I do think your circular metal KNY-Scheerer box is a needle box.
It's pretty cool, and it kind of makes me want one, but I already have too many doodads.
keramikos, You fell down the rabbit hole there. The earlier link you sent, with the thread clearly shows the needle box with the trademark on it. It is older than I thought by a couple years but is in amazing shape because it is so well made. thanks again for helping me out
Malatero2, You're welcome. :-)
I did fall down a rabbit hole, but for the most part, it was an enjoyable one. };-)
The trademark database, not so much. Dunno what USPTO is tryna do with it, but for me, it's become even less navigable. >8-0
Not sure which link you're writing about with the picture of the needle box complete with the trademark.
Anyway, it seems to me like your item might be slightly older than the needle case in that 1915 catalog, because the bottom has just "GERMANY" engraved on it, rather than "MADE IN GERMANY."
keramikos, the first link you sent
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/user/keramikos
had an image of the needle boxes. it has on that page a drawing of a very similar box with the "Aesculap," only a slightly different size and name, perhaps without the Germany added. Definitely the trademark from the dispute on the lid. I wonder why there are not more of them around. It was worth the couple bucks I paid for it to investigate it. Thanks again for the resource material too. I am updating the pictures to reflect its cousin fromthe catalog