Posted 12 years ago
ronsoverst…
(33 items)
I once found a plate that had this kind of pock marked surface. An appraiser told me it was because of the age that they had not perfected how to do porcelain from the Chinese and was very old.
He told me the plate was worth 400-800 dollars and possibly more if an art appraiser was called to appraise the artwork.
I gave the plate away since I had just started colleting and assumes that I could easily find another one like that.
More than five years later I dwcided that if I ever see a plate like that again I would keep it matter what.
This is the first plate I have seen that has that kind of surface after purchasing thousands of items over the years.
Is this plate as old as I think?
Do you like it as much as I do?
Well the Chinese had been making porcelain for about 2,200 years when this plate was made, and likely your other plate, so they figured out how to do it long ago. Pock marks are not a good sign unfortunately. This is from about the 1950's-1970's.
The marks on really old porcelain are hand-painted instead of stamped like that. When you're out looking for Oriental porcelain, you want to look for high craftsmanship, lots of man-hours in a piece. You'll see pieces that look pretty, but they're actually nothing special. Look for something that's HAND-painted with INCREDIBLE detail. I've got a couple of pieces right now, this is what you want to look for:
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/78158-large-handpainted-japanese-porcelain-vas
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/87050-kinkozan-tsukuru-japanese-meiji-era-sats
Im sorry but I have to disagree. Modern pieces were made by machine and are flawless. Stamps have been used for centuries. Signs of flaws are a sign of true antiques.
And in light if the story I told you that much should have been clear.
See
http://www.ehow.com/way_5491955_do-china-antique.html#page=3
I didn't say it was made by machine (porcelain never is actually), this was certainly made by hand, just very hastily.
To say that anything with a flaw must be very old is rather simplistic... Pock marks on Chinese porcelain are actually a sign of inferior or hasty glazing. The Chinese perfected porcelain LONG ago, Google some images of Song dynasty work, almost a thousand years old, and the glaze is flawless. These are from the 12th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gr%C3%A8s_chinois_Guimet.jpg
Okay, I meant to say the marks on REALLY old porcelain are hand-painted. REALLY old porcelain means pre-19th century. Stamps haven't been used for centuries, just the last one, and you typically want to look for marks that are handpainted. They are generally more sought-after. It implies more man-hours, more craftsmanship, more care.
This plate is old, but not very old. This kind of poor quality porcelains were made in late Qing Dynasty, especially during Tongzhi period(1861-1875). And stamped marks were also used at that time.
The pattern is called 'Four Season Flowers' - peony(spring), lotus(summer), chrysanthemum(autumn), and plum(winter), and the peach in the center stands for longevity.
Yes I think your right. I do now see a faint maker mark on one that says China.
As Stillwater said the Chinese were masters of Porcelain so why do you think these pieces were done so poorly. I see pores in the glaze and burn marks where the pieces were held up in the kiln.
BTW thanks to everyone who sent in comments. I hope I did not sound rude when I disagreed with Stillwater who probably knows a good deal better than me about Asian porcelain.
Ron
No sweat Ron, you reacted the way most people would. I get criticized here a lot for being blunt, but I always feel like I'd want someone to be that way if it were me, you know? I would just want to know if I'm on the right track or not.
If you keep looking, you will eventually find a piece as good as the one you gave away. The upset that giving it away caused you will make you determined to replace it, your eyes will be drawn to pieces you might have missed otherwise. If there's any advice I could offer you, it would be to look for pieces with an unbelievable level detail, ones with filthy, dirty, worn-down bottoms, and handpainted marks. Good luck
Thanks for being so understanding. I appreciate your honesty. You are right. It is experiences like that that keep us hunting.
I do have some interesting Ming dynasty roof tiles
Hi Ron
The pieces you have are indeed authentic and date from the Emperor Tongzhi period (1856 to 1875). I own similar pieces and they are known as Peach bowls. The Peach in Chinese mythology is emblematic of wealth and prosperity and this emblem was favoured by the Chinese Emperor.
The fact that you have one that says China is not unusual but if it is not marked but just carries another mark, then it is definitley authentic Tongzhi period porcelain
Dean
Never say "definitely" with Chinese antiques... There are more fakes than authentic pieces. They remake the old stamps, rub the bottoms on concrete, and stain them with tea. There have been several museums that have had to throw away pieces that they'd had for DECADES. Even Southeby's and Christie's have been fooled. There was big stink about it a little while ago about it
Its actually an art form in itself creating something that is SOOOOO convincing
Not that I think these are fake though. They only fake the super valuable stuff
Thanks for the follow up information. Very interesting.
Hi I've inherited a very heavy and very old Chinese plate, very simular to the one that you gave away, exactly the same colours used to paint the flowers except on mine it's just the edge that's decorated, I don't know much about it, but it to has pick holes and a hand painted reddish orange stamp, I'd be very gratefully on any info on it, l. Thanks guys.
Oh ok thanks for your info, I'm glad I ?now a bit more about it now.
i agree with sunday driver this is a very low value plate