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Singer 66k Treadle Machine Restore

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    Posted 2 years ago

    Coachcaptain
    (1 item)

    Hi, I am starting a Singer 66k, made in 1925 treadle machine restore and seeking help and advice from anyone that has gone down this road. The actual machine is not in good shape re paint and decals, wondering if anyone has re-painted a machine, if so advice please? Thanks.

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    Comments

    1. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, Woo hoo! Ya made a post! :-)

      Just for drill, I'll provide excerpts for the couple of features where your Singer Lotus 66 is different from the one that belongs to realityisahoax (I'd still recommend the 66-1 user manual, even though your machine has a side-clamping presser foot, because it's still a good reference):

      Your serial number: Y3690512

      The pertinent lines in the Y serial number table:

      Y- 3609061 3709060 66K 100000 November 24 1925
      Y- 4174991 4274990 66K 100000 July 8 1926

      https://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-y-series-serial-numbers.html

      I honestly can't tell whether your cabinet is Cabinet Table No. 5 or No. 6, because I see no trace of what moldings might have been on the center drawer:

      https://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/5-6_cab.html

      Here is a link to the other post with the extensive commentary:

      https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/307471-garage-sale-find--1906-singer-sewing-m

      I see what you mean about the decals and japanning.

      Some vintage sewing machine enthusiasts wouldn't do anything more than clean and condition it. They'd love it, imperfections and all, because the signs of wear are part of its history.

      However, I totally get somebody wanting to strip off all of the old, damaged finish on the sewing machine head, and start from scratch.

      Here is a commercial outfit that does that kind of thing for a living. It doesn't sound like they use the traditional japanning methods, but they do get some beautiful results:

      https://www.stillstitching.com/2018/01/paint-restoration.html

      https://www.stillstitching.com/p/paint-restoration.html

      I don't know how much advice they'd be willing to give a hobbyist, but you could ask them:

      https://www.stillstitching.com/p/contact.html

      Just for the heck of it, a little mood music:

      shirley ellis the clapping song

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWuSPPLtkEQ
    2. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Hi keramikos, the cabinet I have is number 5 no fancy work on the front draw. By the way that draw is not a true draw but a swing out 3 compartment storage area. I will look at the links you have provided and see what they have to say. One thing I have picked up on restoring these machines is a great one for the iron work. There is a product called "Rust Converter" that you brush on quite thickly and let it dry, it dries to a semi gloss black over all the metal, rusty or not, and you can the top coat it or just leave as is. Look great as a finish but can give it a final overcoat if you want.
      I like the clapping song jobby, thanks
      So I can't add photos on to this thread either?
    3. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      The paint restoration from 'Still Stitching' is very impressive and quite expensive, but, as that say in the classics "you get what you pay for" so it's probably good value for money, in certain cases. The deeper I go into this project the more in depth stuff there is to do. You can't open her up, squirt WD40 or such into the machine, and screw it back together, you really have to totally disassemble, thoroughly clean and re assemble, at least thats what i have discovered, to do the job properly, or you might as well not bother in the first place, but that's logic I suppose?
    4. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, Sorry, I was out and about for a bit running errands.

      Actually, if you look closely at the ISMACS drawings, Cabinet Table No. 5 has a fancy applique in the middle of front of the center drawer. Cabinet Table No. 6 has rows of beading at the top and bottom.

      Yes, typically that center drawer is a 'tip-out' with compartments.

      No, I'm afraid you can't really add pictures to this post. The limit is four pictures per post. :-(

      What you can do is edit your pictures, splicing two or more into one, and get more pictures in a single post that way, but that method is really only suitable for small items like jewelry.

      If you have something large that needs more than four images, you just have to create another post. You can always link them to each other in their respective comment sections.

      I'm glad that you liked The Clapping Song. It's probably a good thing that we didn't have smart phones and YouTube when I was in high school. My best friend probably would have killed me, because I was already sufficiently annoying about providing impromptu song references. };-)

      Yeah, even if you wanted to pony up for stillstitching to refinish your vintage sewing machine for you, they have a waiting list. I was hoping that they might be charitable enough to give you a few pointers on your project, especially if you run into trouble.

      It's a big job, and you probably do need to take the sewing machine head completely apart.

      The stillstitching website has a vintage labeled drawing of a Singer model 66 (it's even a Lotus) as well as a vintage labeled drawing of a treadle:

      https://www.stillstitching.com/2018/10/diagram-vintage-sewing-machine-with-treadle.html

      They're not exploded IPBs, or anything, but they're handy for anybody not familiar with sewing machines, especially vintage ones.
    5. Watchsearcher Watchsearcher, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, you may already know this but in case you haven’t figured out why just that particular portion of the decal is missing: ladies (my grandmother included) would wrap a strip of cloth around that section of the machine and use it as a handy pincushion.
      Modern sewing machines will sew over pins without a problem but with these old beauties, if you see over a pin you’re likely going to hit the pin and break the needle.

      From the missing decal, you can just imagine the number of pin scratches it took to do that amount of damage. Your machine got plenty of use!
      But they are practically indestructible so there’s plenty more sewing in it’s future. :^)

      Good luck with your restoration! Be sure to post the completed project.
    6. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, Watchsearcher is absolutely right. :-)

      That damage seen at the narrowest part of the horizontal arm is common enough that it has an informal name, "pin rash":

      Pin rash is an array of scrapes and scratches on a sewing machine where an owner has used cloth wrapped around the machine for holding pins. It is considered unfortunate by many collectors since it diminishes the cosmetics of the machine. Meanwhile some enthusiasts consider pin rash to be a reflection of the machine's glory days when it was used frequently as a vital home appliance and not a collector's item.

      You decide... does pin rash add character?

      https://www.stillstitching.com/2018/11/jargon-glossary-for-vintage-sewing.html

      https://www.quiltingroomwithmel.com/2015/09/the-stories-of-vintage-sewing-machines.html

      Here's yet another resource for cleaning and restoring vintage machines:

      https://www.recyclart.org/diy-cleaning-up-your-vintage-and-or-antique-sewing-machines/

      Don't ase me why it's taken me this long to notice that resource, because the author used to post here fairly regularly, and almost all of her posts were about vintage sewing machines (she had one about a vintage tatting shuttle):

      https://www.collectorsweekly.com/user/HeatherStiletto/posts
    7. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Hi Watchsearcher, thanks for your reply. No I hadn't come up with that reason, I thought that it was like that because, you need to handle the machine, usually at around that point, to get it to fold down when packing it away in the cabinet? So thanks for the info. I will keep an update as I go and thanks for your interest. Yep she's 97 years old and still as strong, and stubborn, as she the day she was made.
    8. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Thanks keramikos for your reply but I don't think 'pin rash' adds character or anything else for that matter, just something to rectify? and again thanks for your useful links.
    9. Watchsearcher Watchsearcher, 2 years ago
      I posted my own old Singer a while back after I finished fixing it up and doing a little sewing project on it. I can tell you for a fact it is a joy to see them working again after decades of sitting idle.
    10. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Hi again, Coachcaptain.

      I hope this reached you in time, because it's very important information for anybody who's planning to disassemble completely their sewing machine:

      https://pungolivinghome.com/2022/02/02/a-tutorial-one-very-important-disassembly-tip-for-your-sewing-machine-restoration/
    11. dav2no1 dav2no1, 2 years ago
      Keramikos Check your email. I'm looking at a lot of 3. I believe they're are 66 like this machine?
    12. keramikos, 2 years ago
      And that jogged something else loose in my memory banks. There is a non-metal gear in all vintage Singer sewing machines:

      https://www.oldsewingear.com/blog/singer-401as-dirty-little-secret

      The blogger pungoliving also knows about it (no surprise, I guess):

      https://pungolivinghome.com/2019/03/26/textolite-fiber-not-metal-in-a-vintage-all-metal-machine-should-you-be-concerned/

      Just so you know.
    13. keramikos, 2 years ago
      dav2no1, I'll take a look. :-)
    14. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Hi keramikos, good to hear from you again, and as usual, great info and help. I have tried to loosen that screw once but gave up as it didn't move, and now I know the reason so thanks for the link to the info. I'm not sure I need to take her apart that much as she now moves very freely. I have repainted the metal frame, (just have to 'gold' the logos) gone as far as I can on the machine (without paint and decals) and am now onto the wooden parts. Stripped am back and am about to start with the Shellacking and then a final coat of polyurethane. Thanks
    15. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, *cough* You're welcome? :-(

      That reverse threaded screw illustrates what I mean about me not being an expert. My heart was in my mouth after I read about it yesterday.

      Hopefully, all you did was make yours a bit tighter. I'll have to remember to warn DIY restorers about that in the future.

      It sounds like your restore is proceeding. :-)
    16. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Thanks keramikos, you're a great help. I'll have a look at the said screw and see if I can now move it in the reverse direction.
    17. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, I hope so. :-)

      The big thing is whether it's become stripped. I suspect you'd already know if that were the case.
    18. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Thanks keramikos i'll let you know.
    19. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, Thanks.

      I just had my memory jogged again about another screw in a vintage Singer that needs special care:

      https://pungolivinghome.com/2020/01/22/a-tutorial-replacing-the-bobbin-hook-race-felt-on-a-singer-model-66-and-99-sewing-machine/

      I hope I'm not a day late and a dollar short again. :-(
    20. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Thanks for the new info keramikos, but...... I have already undone the don't undo screw, cleaned and reassembled it all, just have to do the felt oil wick now, so thanks for the link to doing that. I'll have to find a tutorial on how to re-time the gap as seen in your post. Many thanks for your help and interest. I like a challenge.....
    21. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, Oh dear. :-(

      You might want to contact the guy who warned about "“THE SCREW THAT SHALL NOT BE TURNED”:

      https://pungolivinghome.com/home-2/contact-us/

      He advises that there are many adjustments that can affect your machine's stitch:

      https://pungolivinghome.com/home-2/topics-tips-and-tricks/its-all-about-the-stitch/

      I don't know whether this is the right thing, but here is an adjustment for the bobbin case position bracket:

      https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1752031/Singer-66-Series.html?page=9#manual

      Here are some resources for adjusting the hook timing:

      https://mysewingmachineobsession.blogspot.com/2011/09/once-hook-is-back-in-machine-it-is-time.html

      Here's somebody who had trouble adjusting the hook timing, because some of the parts had been reassembled incorrectly:

      https://www.reddit.com/r/vintagesewing/comments/tib3nn/singer_661_timing_problems/

      Here are some videos of a professional doing it:

      Singer 66 Hook: Remove, Replace, & Set Timing

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZy567gCVgs

      Timing an old Singer 66 without marks and a gauge: Sunday Morning Quickies - November 28th, 2021

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkP-I6o0Cok

      How To Make a Hook Timing Gauge for a Singer 66 & More! - Sunday Morning Quickies, January 9, 2022

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UktRmjF91fA

      Here's the adjuster's manual:

      https://archive.org/details/singer-66-timing-adjusting-manual-en

      Here's the service manual:

      https://archive.org/details/singer-66-service-manual-en/page/n3/mode/2up

      Here's a parts list for models 66-1 and 66-2 (yours isn't a 66-1, because it doesn't have the back-clamping presser foot, but it might be a 66-2):

      https://www.universalsewing.com/images2/parts_lists/all/8hpl9dde.pdf

      In case that doesn't satisfy, here is universalsewing dot com's full catalog of parts lists:

      https://www.universalsewing.com/tek9.asp?pg=parts_singer
    22. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Hi keramikos, thanks for alllllll that info very helpful as usual. I am subscribed to a YouTube channel about Singer 66 Sewing machine clean/restore/fix from Bob Fowler who has a business fixing em, so I might have to contact him as well. Just about to start the reassemble all the parts of the unit so lets hopeIi don't end up with a bag of screws/nuts/washers etc.. at the end of the day? Thanks
    23. keramikos, 2 years ago
      Coachcaptain, Yeah, sorry, I probably went both under and over board. };-)

      Right now you need help with that one particular adjustment, and experts like the pungoliving guy and Bob Fowler are probably your best shots.

      I hope you don't end up with a bag of parts, either. You probably won't. You'll probably get your Singer Lotus 66 restored, and then you'll be an expert, and I'll refer DIY newbies to you. :-)
    24. Coachcaptain, 2 years ago
      Thanks keramikos for your confidence in my ability, but this is my first go at it, and I hope it won't be my last. I enjoy this type of challenge so I will look at and maybe ask the experts as you have said.
      You can never give too much info, as I always say "I'd rather ask a silly question than make a stupid mistake" so I appreciate all your info and help.

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