Posted 1 year ago
dav2no1
(835 items)
1790s Brass Naval Rum Measure
Approximately 3 3/4" tall 3 1/2" inside diameter and handle is 2" high
ERA: late 1700s
Picked this up today. Owner was moving, had it in their scrap bin and it was full of sharpies and a wood working pencil. Came out of her husband's garage. I thought it was unusual and heavy (15.4 ounces).
A magnet won't stick to it, so I'm sure it's brass. Appears to be hand formed and soldered. It does have an outline of a square label or piece of tape on the bottom? It's possible it was an ID tag from the owners whom were collectors? There's also a pad on the front that has not been engraved. The patina looks old and doesn't appear to be faux. There is a series of stamped hallmarks similar to an authentic one I found online from a reputable site.
SAY WHAT SCUTTLEBUTT?
Researching this item was like learning another language. I will try to explain as we go.
DON'T DRINK THE WATER
Let's start here..
scuttlebutt - a cask on board a ship that contained fresh water for a day's use.
Potable water stowed on board a ship at sea for any length of time became stagnant, with algae blooming within the storage casks. The water was pretty nasty and sailors would cut their water with beer or wine to improve the taste and to help kill germs with the alcohol.
NO CERVEZAS
Beer and wine was not always readily available when traveling at sea. Rum did not spoil like beer and wine could. Rum was plentiful. So rum rations began.
A TOT A DAY
The Royal Navy allowed a ration of one tot per day.
TOT - Originally a tot was a half a pint. From 1850 to 1970 a tot consisted of one-eighth of an imperial pint.
Barrel strength rum was pretty potent and not easily sippable. A half pint of rum was way stronger than a half pint of beer. Because of this it didn't take much to turn a ship into a drunken brawl. So grog was introduced. Hmmm wasn't that a character in the Sunday comic strip B.C.?
GROG GROG
“The daily allowance of half a pint a man is to be mixed with a quart of water, to be mixed in one scuttlbutt kept for that purpose, and to be done upon deck, and in the presence of the Lieutenant of the Watch, who is to see that the men are not defrauded of their allowance of rum.”
A LIME WITH YOUR GROG
By adding sugar and lime to the GROG, it made it taste better and helped with the scurvy.
Scurvy-disease caused by a deficiency of vitamin C, which particularly affected poorly nourished sailors until the end of the 18th century.
NO GROG FOR PIRATES
Pirates didn't drink grog because it was associated with the British seamen. Instead they drank bumbo.
Bumbo- rum, water, and sugar, but with a bit of nutmeg instead of lime.
BOB SMITH
American soldiers didn't stick with the grog very long either. They drank Bob Smith.
Bob Smith -After the Revolutionary War, they subbed US-made rye for Jamaican rum — a more patriotic version of the cocktail, which they called a “Bob Smith”.
**There's a lot more interesting stuff. I'll add some links on the comments **
**Here's some links on the history of rum, grog, etc..**
https://sailorjerry.com/en/blog/post/the-storied-history-of-the-drink-we-call-grog#:~:text=ADDING%20SUGAR%20AND%20LIME,a%20pretty%20damn%20good%20cocktail.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2017/april/rum-spirit-sea
Here's an authentic 1790 naval rum measure..
https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-dutch-18th-century-brass-naval-gin-or-rum-measure-marked-to-vessel-wassenaer-c-1790
x insert
x insert pikbroek rum maat
insert de braak cargo
dav2no1, Very Cool. :-)
Yep, that was quite a bit of liquor.
Kera..in the 1600s a lot of people drank beer for breakfast and to get carbs and nutrients. It wasn't until industrialization and coffee became more popular that these practices changed.
Well..I've worked plenty of night shifts in my time and enjoyed many a beer with my breakfasts..lol
A couple of "likely lads" I used to know here were ex NZ Navy. When word got out there was a navy boat in port they would be down asap to get into the rum and story would have it usually carried off later after imbibing a tad too much :)
i am not an expert but others are, but what got IMA to do in the kind of stuff
HIsorically noone understands this , because it probably ought to be related to the JAVA WAr prepping under WILLEM 1, wassenaar met AE is unknown , but we might miss something
because probably the dating is right and it is probably dutch, i think stuff the IMA stuff is highly overrated
the text is strange , because we ought to be in the era of the republic of the seven unified Netherlands, and we where not that afficionado,s of royals during tthat time, the stuff was mostly biblical or corny domestical
i see no wat out we have to shut out napoleontic periof and the so called verlicht absolutisme van Willem 1 , so it is an enigma
i highly prefere tour stuff over tne IMA STuff , which IMO is hardly value
WE coul, not reach a consesnsus with the experts as far , i think it is real and Dutch and and it is late 18 century, maybe the text is a reference to the WILHELMUS
we discussed naval brass and even that was complicated , but it quite solid, IMO it is low on sinc and not plated
I think des PUDELS KERN is a technical questionnamely are we we in safe corrosion or are we in blistering corrosion
because we are not verdigris patina
i am not an expert but i got no trouble the green corrosion is an indication of the percentege allocation of the alloy as far as i am concerned, and what more do you need,
it's not an exhibition piece for the highbrows, it's a user piece, for the vulgus !!
try to a logic in the styling i don,t know or a sort of tool use ( like a some type calander use of speed of ship) no indication of this, probably just generic styling
well the jury is out , but i believe in this , i think it is underustimated, corrosions seems ok not trouble some ( seaair is containing salt !) I am only got extensive knowledge of SONG bronze)
so to be honest honest the IMA stuff is not well or valuable , on your stuff is decent
correction we have to shut out napoleontic period and the the so called verlicht absolutisme of WIllem 1
Waki Thank you for the effort. That's all very interesting and the fact that it could be real is exciting. I will do some more research and see if I can find a museum that can look at it further.
I was thinking that if it was a rum measure, that there should be many examples out there due to the amount of ships. I only found the one.
I know the IMA stuff is usually overvalued but their story of the company is interesting. And they have a lot of stuff, mostly weapons.
dav2no1, A good quality beer is nutritious, which is why the Germans call it "fluessiges Brot" (liquid bread).
I don't think I've ever had beer with my breakfast, although I've certainly worked my share of graveyard shifts. At brunch, certainly.
x mnemonic 40 years war dutch nationalism versus philip 4
the reference artefact is ORANIEN GETROV TOTDER DOOT (Orange faithful unto death highly) likely willem van oranje this adagium was quite common during the republic of the zeven unified nederlands till 1795
the ship the wassenaer was on docks atv the navy yard in the netherlands i 1812 , and transferred over bij treaty probably the first PAris treaty after the 6 coalitions wars against the the socalled French AUDACIEUX ( you better asked vetraeo)
something strange happends its possible but how likely a sort of RE and RE VIVED ORANGISME,while the ship was on in 1812, IMO we must exceed the Batavian-French period we mean the period between 1795 and 1813 in which the Netherlands was under French influence.
a sort of reviving during the period of wilhelm the first, see dutch logo, wev got no reason to use the dutch logo during the Batavian FRench period, see also the on stock date of the Wassenaer
got no trouble with the hallmarkstyle looks genuine , probably the spread is a big wider , no sweat, , try to get information from the maritiem Einsteins , they won,t help, so i have to guess
i don,t know if i am right
great piece of history. not much around from the 1700's anymore. Great description also. Thanks for posting.
Waki - As always I appreciate your knowledge.
Hot-air- Thank you for the comments. I sent pictures to the Dutch Maritime Museum awhile back as Waki suggested but have heard nothing back.